Transcript:

Ben Smith:

Welcome everyone, to the Retirement Success in Maine podcast. My name is Ben Smith, and I'm one of the co-hosts here on the show. Listeners, hope you're all doing well today. If you want to be a part of the show, you can email us at bensmith@guidancepointrs.com, or check us out on our socials, leave a comment on our YouTube, things like that. Obviously, we have Facebook and LinkedIn, and you can just search Retirement Success in Maine podcast, and find us there. Love to introduce my co-host, the Donald Duck to my Goofy, Curtis Worcester. Curtis, how you doing today?

Curtis Worcester:

I'm doing well, Ben, I'm doing well. Not going to lie, I was expecting to be called Goofy there, but it's okay. I'll take the Donald Duck endorsement. I love it. How are you?

Ben Smith:

Good, good. Yeah, I think we're in our high-90s in our shows now, so things are going pretty well.

Curtis Worcester:

We are.

Ben Smith:

And we've got a little sense of retirement in lots of different ways. But did you have any fun things you did this last weekend?

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, the weather here in Maine, is finally coming around here. It's getting warmer, so spending a lot of time outside on the golf course specifically. My wife is also requesting I set up the outdoor furniture at the house, so that was also on the hit list. But yeah, just really trying to get out and enjoy the warm weather now that it's here. How about yourself?

Ben Smith:

Yeah, same. Of course, May, we got to hurry up and enjoy spring, because it's only here for a minute, so you got to-

Curtis Worcester:

Winter's coming.

Ben Smith:

Yes. But one of the things that we do, me, my wife, and my son, we go to Disney every six months typically. And as soon as we leave that last vacation, we are planning the... Actually, a year out. So we've already planned our six-month out Thanksgiving week trip, which we're going Old Key West, Alkin Lodge and Riviera split stay, but we're already planning the next April trip, so we're already getting into that right now. So that's been our weekend plans, is where do we want to stay, and we rent points from Disney Vacation Clubs, all that. But while we're on the note of researching Disney though, of course to this podcast, and hearing from our guests. So thinking about Disney and retirement plans, my wife Kara and I, we've really been talking about where do we want to be? I just had a birthday, and I'm in my early-40s, and one thing we know about us, is that we've enjoyed the magic of being near Disney World for a lot of our lives.

So now we're thinking about keeping that magic going, but now we're asking the question of probably many retirees, or those dreaming about retirement ask, where do I want to live in retirement? And I think that's a big question, and I think back to, I think, episode two with Diane Walsh for Eastern Area Agency and Aging, and she was talking about, look, when you start getting in your early-40s, now is this time to prep your house, to do these things to prep for aging, because you got disposable income to do things, time to do it. And that's something where we've been talking about that, is where do we want to live? So Kara and I agree, really the weather in New England is pretty tiring, January through March. We're not winter people. We don't ski, we don't snowmobile, we don't ice fish. And people point out to me that we probably live in the wrong place.

We like the other nine months. But yeah, so we're saying, "Hey, could we avoid extreme snow and cold for a spell? That would be amazing." So we thought about first buying a home for somewhere warm, but we're not people that want to manage the second property, or try to monetize a property so we can stay there for six to eight weeks a year. That seems like a lot of work, a lot of money to do that.

Curtis Worcester:

Sure.

Ben Smith:

And obviously, property prices have gone way up, so the cost of doing that seems pretty prohibitive. So we're on our most recent Disney trip. We're out, we're walking around the parks, and you see all the Disney Vacation Club booths. And we know there are timeshares of the various Disney resort properties, but of course, being investment professionals like we are, Curtis, so we hear timeshare, and you hear the negative connotation of it. And you just got to Google "Problem with timeshares," and you get a list a mile long, of problems. But the more we looked at this, we researched Disney Vacation Club, and the model and how Disney's approach, it just made more sense. So our question was, so could we use timeshares, specifically Disney Vacation Club ones, to fulfill a retirement dream of living at Disney World during those harsh New England weeks? So on today's episode, we're going to talk about using Disney Vacation Club to live in Florida in the winter months in retirement.

Curtis Worcester:

All right, all right. I like it. I know you are probably, of all of our shows, you are an expert in this field, I think, Ben. But of course, we like to have guests on our show as well, so we're bringing in a really, really sophisticated expert here. So our next guest began his Disney career in 1999, in Chicago, as the marketing manager with Walt Disney Parks and Resorts. Fast forward to 2007, he joined Disney Vacation Club, or DVC, as part of the pioneering team at Doorway to Dreams, DVC's preview center, located outside of Chicago. There, he was a top performer each year, and the lead presenter for signature live events. So we're going to jump ahead now. 2014, he joined the DVC cruise team, where he continued a strong performance. As a DVC cruise team member, he was chosen to present on multiple DVC member cruises, as well as provide coaching and training to new DVC cast members.

So over the years, our guest has received multiple awards for his performance, including the prestigious Leadership Circle and Multiple Partners in Excellence nominations. Some of his career highlights include selling over $22 million in Disney Vacation Club direct. He sold over $42 million in DVC resale. He's a six-time DVC Leadership Circle Award winner, DVC member cruise and special events sales presenter. He's been a licensed real estate agent since 2014, and he's also a member of St. Luke's Church.

Our guest today, currently serves as senior sales and associate and brand ambassador for DVC Resale Market, a World of DVC company. DVC Resale Market's team includes 21 former DVC cast members, and has sold over $1.3 billion, that's with a B, billion dollars of Disney Vacation Club, and has over 200 years of combined direct DVC experience. Our guest today, and his wife Anne, are proud parents of Owen and Connor, and live in downtown Windermere, Florida, DVC members since 1999. His favorite Disney memory was having his high school sweetheart, Annie, say "I do," back in 1996 at their wedding at Disney's Wedding Pavilion. So with that, please join me in welcoming Derek DeBoer to the Retirement Success in Maine podcast. Derek, thank you so much for coming on our show today.

Derek DeBoer:

I am beyond thrilled to be here. And I've realized that I'm going to basically just play a recording of that intro anytime I meet anybody in the future. I'm just going to set them down. Who are you? I'm going to say "Here, listen to this."

Curtis Worcester:

I'll send you the clip as soon as we're done. Just let me know, I'll send it over.

Ben Smith:

Curtis is just... Yep, yep. Transcripts.

Derek DeBoer:

Way too kind. Thank you guys, so, so much for having me on. There's nothing more than I love to do, is of course, talk about probably the best product in the whole entire world, so you guys are going to be a perfect fit for today. So I am very much looking forward to it, so thank you for having me.

Curtis Worcester:

Awesome.

Ben Smith:

Our pleasure. Thanks for coming on, Derek.

Derek DeBoer:

Of course.

Ben Smith:

I want to make a quick plug too, because World DVC and DVC Resale Market, you guys have a great social media presence, YouTube. For those that are researching all these topics we're going to talk about today, go to World DVC and DVC Resale Market, go to DVC fan, check out those socials, because it has just educated my wife and I so much. In terms of all these things and all the questions, you guys have done a great job answering. So I want to put that out there first, because I think that's really important if you are considering anything we talk about today that, so that's the first thing.

Second thing is, look, we're not here to sell DVC ourselves, so this is not a solicitation to get people into Disney Vacation Club. This is just going through that idea of using this in retirement, so want to put that out there. But Derek, obviously we want to get to know you a little bit here, and introduce you to our listeners in our audience. So let's start with a bit of your background. Obviously, we know that you were in Chicago originally as a marketing manager at Walt Disney World, but talk about your original location, where you're from, and how did your upbringing lead you to a career of sales?

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah, it's kind of crazy. And sometimes, when I think about it and I share my story, I'm like, "God, that's insane how I went from here to here to here." It's funny, how my career with Disney started was back in Chicago. So I grew up right outside northwest Indiana, and I went to school in downtown Chicago, at Columbia University. Always been a Disney fan, but it wasn't until I went with my mom and dad, of course, and at this time, it was my girlfriend-slash-fiance at the time. They brought us down there, and we all stayed at Dixie Landings, now it's called Port Orleans. And we just, because it was kind of our first trip there being a grownup, right?

You go to Disney when you're a kid, and it's like, "Okay, it's about ride, ride, ride." We had the best time just exploring, and just being there as a couple. And we were like, "God, we really love this." Cut to, we had our wedding planned back in northwest Indiana, back in 1995. And we kept thinking, we're like, "God, I don't know if I want to get married. Oh, there's so many people, I don't even know these people that are coming to the wedding, like 200-plus people." We found an ad in one of her bridal magazines, that said, "Disney World is opening up a wedding pavilion where you could get married at Walt Disney World." So we gave that 1-800 phone number a call, we got all the details, and that's where we wound up doing our wedding for about 20 people or so, so we just had a very, very small group. One of the first 100 people to get married at Disney's Wedding Pavilion. And this was, and I got to share this story, because it's financial.

Ben Smith:

Sure, yeah.

Derek DeBoer:

Because it's financially hysterical, just of how little my wedding cost. It was ridiculous. So this was our wedding, because again, they were brand new. Again, they didn't do a lot of weddings, so they weren't really sure what to charge. We got our whole entire wedding, we had flowers, we had a little champagne and cake reception on one of the balconies, right there at the Grand Floridian. So the wedding pavilion is located kind of right between the Polynesian and the Grand Floridian. We had, of course, our minister. We had our four nights at the Wilderness Lodge, and back then they had honeymoon suites, and it included all of our park tickets. The whole entire thing was $2,500, for the whole entire thing.

Ben Smith:

Holy moly, wow.

Derek DeBoer:

So when I think back on that, and I kind of tell people, and I go, "I think they might charge you $2,500 just to look at the wedding pavilion these days." It is astronomically different. But it was one of those things where we knew that we were going to come back to Disney, and we knew that we were always going to come back. We knew that we were going to have kids. And then when you have kids, you sign that contract that you've got to take so many Disney trips in your whole entire life.

Curtis Worcester:

That's it. It's what happens. Yeah.

Derek DeBoer:

It's what happens. And it was on one of those trips, I think maybe it wasn't our honeymoon, maybe it was the one after that, where we were there, and we, of course, just like you mentioned, you kind of see the people in the parks talking about Disney Vacation Club. You see the little cards that are in your hotel room, "Hey, come and explore the best kept Disney secret." And you're like, "What is this?"

And it wasn't until, again, another financial story. The hotel that we were staying at at the time, was probably maybe 60, $70 a night. So we did, just like you guys do, is like, "Hey, I got to have the next one in the pipeline so I don't go through that Disney depression halfway through your trip because it's halfway over, and you don't have the next one booked." And we called up Disney saying, "Okay, well how much is this hotel next year?" And it was about 30, 35% more, plus 12.5% tax. And we were like, "My God, it's so much more money." And we know we're going to keep coming back. So we said, "You know what? Let's sign up for that little tour. Let's see what Disney Vacation Club is."

And then we took the tour, and they laid it out. They picked us up in a little van and took us over, at the time it was Old Key West. They explained how the club worked. They showed us the model rooms, which of course, once you see the model rooms, and you think of the hotel room that you're staying in, and you see one bedroom or a two bedroom, and it's like, "Oh, my God." It just made so much sense to us. And again, we didn't even have a house. We were in like a duplex, but we were like, "Listen, we got to join this club because we know going to come back." And I think at the time that we bought, we paid about $12,000 for 170 points, which I'm trying to think what comes out. I don't have my calculator in front of me, what it was per point.

But at the time, that 12 grand seemed like a lot of money.

Ben Smith:

Oh, sure.

Derek DeBoer:

But we kept thinking to ourselves, going, "God, do you know what? We're going to come back. We know we're going to come back." We know it's going to... As our vacation guide explained, "How many trips do y'all have to take before you spend, say, the 12 grand?" And for us, it was probably like five. And he's like, "So join the club. Because then Derek, Annie, what happens then, you broke even, say, on year five. And instead of staying in hotel rooms, you're staying in deluxe Disney resorts, but then you're going to get these vacation points that you bought. And for the next 30, 40 years, these points are going to keep coming. And you vacation on just the annual dues," which is literally comes out to be... Like you're staying in the deluxe resorts for what people pay to stay at a value resort, if that's any comparison.

So people that stay at the All-Star people, which funny story, by the way, the All-Star, when it opened, used to be about $35 a night. Now, to even say at the All-Star Pop Century, you're close to probably $300 a night, that $250, $300 plus 12.5% tax. So it's the hotel route, keep going up every single year. And that's why thousands and thousands of people join Disney Vacation Club, because it really is, and I love that phrase, kind of a hedge against inflation. Because you're not at worried how much the hotel rooms have gone up each year, because you say, "Okay, where are we going? We got 200 points, say, every single year. Let's see. Okay, let's stay five nights, or seven nights in this place." Or we say, "Oh, we don't have enough to stay as long, so we can borrow points from the following year."

It's such a no-brainer for folks that, for two reasons. I mean, flat out, you're going to save money when you join. For 20 years, I've talked to folks, literally from all over the world. Because when I was on the Disney cruise ships, I did probably 100-plus cruises all over the world talking to folks. And some of them, probably your audience, would come in and sit with spreadsheets. And they have the spreadsheets, and they have things that have broken this all out. And they would all wind up joining, just because it just makes sense. So that's probably the biggest thing, is you're going to save money. But I like to tell people that the best thing is you're going to vacation better, flat out. Staying in a studio at a deluxe resort, or a one bedroom with a full kitchen, and you're saving money, but you're going to vacation better.

You're staying in a room that if you have kids, a one bedroom, once you do a Disney Vacation Club one bedroom, your life is never, ever the same again. Because when you have kids, you have what we like to call, it's truly like the trillion dollar door. So it's a door, and you can throw the kids into the bedroom, shut the door, you guys go sit and relax in the living room, let them pass out. So you've got balconies and patios, and yeah, you save money, and you vacation better. So every family's different, that's what I stress. And I know we're going to talk about that today too.

Ben Smith:

Exactly.

Derek DeBoer:

Some families might buy so many points that they want to almost basically live at Disney for a month or two months. But there's a ton of families that say, "Hey, you know what? We go every other year, or maybe we go for three or four nights." Disney Vacation Club can fit, because it truly is customized to each and every family out there.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, I love that. And Derek, so at this point, you've bought into Disney Vacation Club. At this point in your life, are you working for Disney at this point? What drove you ultimately, to work at Disney, and then ultimately, Disney Vacation Club? Can we hear kind of that side, the work side?

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah. It's kind of funny, because I wound up finding, in the middle of all my love for Disney, I wound up finding that Disney had a marketing and sales office in Chicago, Illinois, right downtown. And I was like, "Are you kidding me? I could literally take the train, and I could work in downtown Chicago, and I could work for Disney, and be a full-fledged Disney cast member?" So I found some people that work there. You do the basic, "This is my dream job," so you pleasantly stalk them until you get an interview. And I was able to get it. And so I was the Disney marketing manager, so I did that for about three, four, five, six years, I can't even remember how long. But it's where I did all, and involved in the marketing for Walt Disney World. So that anything you saw in Chicago that had radio stations broadcasting from Walt Disney World, or ABC TV in Chicago giving away a Disney cruise. Or if it's a media partner in Indianapolis, or maybe Milwaukee, or maybe Louisville.

So we were kind involved in getting the message out about the magic of Disney, but I got to do it in Chicago. And then it wasn't until about 2006, that a friend of mine in Florida, because I was already a member, because we joined back in 1999. "Hey, you're not going to believe this, but Disney Vacation Club, and we know you're a member, and you work with media partners all the time on promotions," and blah, blah, blah. They're going to open up the first ever Disney Vacation Club Preview Center right outside Chicago in the largest mall in the Midwest, outside, of course, Mall of America. But it's in Woodfield Mall and it's in a town called Schomburg, so it's about maybe 45 minutes from Disney. But they chose Chicago because they had truly, the highest contingent of Disney Vacation Club members in the whole entire Midwest.

Curtis Worcester:

Interesting.

Derek DeBoer:

That Chicago area, and then the New York area.

And so they came up with this plan, which again, was brilliant, and it opened up in 2007, and it was called Disney's Doorway to Dreams. And it was a place where you could learn about what Disney Vacation Club was without having to, like you guys mentioned, take time from your vacation. So you could literally be in the mall, going to buy a pair of shoes at Nordstrom's. We happen to walk by, see the Disney folks there, and say, "God, you know what? We're thinking of planning a trip, so this makes sense. So let me figure out what this is, and let me see how much it costs. And let me, oh, and I could see the model rooms." So we had the actual model room, so you could walk through, and animal kingdom, and see the studio. You could see a one-bedroom, you could see a two-bedroom, and we had the beautiful fake backdrop of a savanna that was there, so it kind of made you feel like it was Disney. And then you could take the numbers, and you could kind of crunch them.

So I was blessed enough to be able to get that job, and be a Disney Vacation Club guide. And we did that for about five years, just helping thousands of families throughout the whole entire Midwest. And I got to tell you, those families still keep in touch with me. We had such a tight relationship with them, because we were literally the place where they would come just to hang out in the store, because they needed their Disney fix. Because they couldn't get Florida, so if anything else-

Curtis Worcester:

They wanted to geek out, yeah.

Derek DeBoer:

I'm just going to sit on this fake balcony and look at the fake zebras and giraffes, but it feels like I'm at Disney. So we have such a great, great relationship with so many folks that joined with us at Disney's Doorway to Dreams.

And then I was blessed enough, because I got offered the chance to do a lot of presentations in front of groups from 10 to 500 to 1000, to where you talk about Disney Vacation Club, what it is, how it works, but you get to learn about it in a group environment. So a lot of people maybe are intimidated by that one-on-one experience like, "Oh, time share? They're going to lock me in a room with this guy for eight hours and not let me out." So having the ability to do these group presentations was something I fell in love with in Chicago big time, and I knew that they had a team on the cruise ships that did it as well. So I was blessed enough to finally be able to join that team as well, which did involve me leaving the Midwest and packing up the family and moving down here to Florida, which we did about 10, 11 years ago.

And like you guys talked about, man, I could never go back. I can't go back. It takes a while to get used to it here, because it's kind of weird. Because I'm 15 minutes from Disney, so I'm far enough away, so it does have a weird... It takes a while, maybe a year. But once you get in, you're like, "I can't even fathom the thought of going back to Chicago." So yeah, so we did that on the cruise ship. Like I said, I probably did 100-plus cruises. So I would go on a three-night cruise, and come home for two nights, and then go on a seven-night cruise, and then come home for a week, and then go to Alaska for two weeks. And then after doing that for quite some time, my kids were little at the time, but they were getting older, so it was kind of one of those things where it was like I got to see my kids grow up.

You don't get a second shot at like, "Hey, could you do me a favor and be five again, because that would be awesome if you could," you can't. So a good friend of mine, Nick, started the DVC Resale Market back in 2014. And we had worked together, and I was kind of like, "Hey, you know what? If you ever need somebody, nobody loves this product more than me, so I'm more than happy to join the team." And again, so thrilled to have been here for over the last five years, and being able to help people with the product that... I truly love this product more than anything else. So when I talk about it, I ain't trying to convince you to buy it, I'm just telling you my personal stories about it. And I got to do it from home. So I got to be able to see my kids grow up, who are now, my youngest just finished his freshman year at Florida State University, and then my youngest finished his freshman year over here at Olympia High School. Today was the last day of school, so it's been perfect.

Curtis Worcester:

Awesome.

Derek DeBoer:

So it's just been the perfect flow of being able to, again, still be associated with a fantastic product. But it's almost better than it was before, because you're not part of Disney Corporate, so it's kind of like you get to really be honest. And I'm one of those guys that will tell you, if I don't like something I'm going to tell you, versus like, "Hey, if you're talking about this, we really need you to phrase it like this or that."

Ben Smith:

Yeah, yeah.

Derek DeBoer:

But yeah, that's what we get to do here. So we get to help people, and like you guys said, research is the most important thing that you can do when it comes to Disney Vacation Club. This was not like when I bought, to where I don't even think DVC had a website. Now, the first thing that people do when they hear about it, is they Google it, and the first name that pops up is the DVC Resale Market, because we have about 65% of the whole worldwide market. And then they go, "Oh, what's that? Well, that looks a lot cheaper than what the person in Florida told me, or the person on the cruise ship told me, so I'm going to take some time and look into this." So that's exactly what we're here for.

Ben Smith:

Awesome. Well, Derek, we'll get into all that, I know, momentarily. I do want to ask one little softball question. I know you're warmed up, but we'll give you another softball to warm me up a little bit more. Obviously, people going to Disney World, what are three not well-known things that you think everyone who visits Disney World should experience?

Derek DeBoer:

So great question, because a lot of people think that Disney's all about the rides. And I hear from people all the time, that maybe go for their first time, and they're waiting in two-hour lines all day, all night, for morning until night, and then they come home and go, "I don't get it. Why do people come back here? It was awful." All they did was just wait in lines with screaming kids. The best moments that you're going to have are going to not involve rides. I always say, "Make sure that you have, no matter where you're staying," obviously, a Disney resort's better, but just have a day or two to just enjoy the pools, just enjoy the resorts. Because especially if you have little kids, and you ask them post-trip, and we hear it all the time, "I asked my kid what his favorite part of the trip was, and he said, swimming in the pool."

Ben Smith:

Yeah, exactly.

Curtis Worcester:

Yes.

Derek DeBoer:

It wasn't about waiting in line for two hours for a one-minute ride. So take that family time, and just enjoy the pool, enjoy the resorts. I love to do, which is one of the things I discovered many, many years ago, is you could rent a boat. And I know it may sound like, you go, "What? I didn't know you could do that." You could rent a pontoon boat, say from the Grand Floridian, it's just pontoon boat. Take it out for an hour. It's not that much money, but you and your family can load up in a pontoon boat and float around Seven Seas Lagoon. You could literally float and park your boat right in front of Cinderella Castle. And then you float it by the cabins, and you go over by the Contemporary, and then you're out over there on Bay Lake. It just gives you a totally different perspective on being there, so I love renting a boat.

And finally, I'm a big believer in the fact, because that's what I love most about Disney, is all the resorts are different. Take some time to just go resort hopping. Have breakfast maybe at the Polynesian, but then get on the monorail and go over and explore the Grand Floridian, and then take the monorail and go explore the Contemporary. Or if you're at Epcot, walk over via the International Gateway, which is right between France and the UK, right where the Skyliner is. And if you've never seen two resorts, it's the Boardwalk and Disney's Beach Club and Yacht Club, they're right there. And I can't tell you how many people had no idea that that whole area even existed. So I think being able to discover stuff like that, is just what makes Disney so magical. There's still stuff that I haven't done. There's still some stuff that I haven't done, and I'm okay with that because there always are the must-dos.

I can't go to Epcot without riding Spaceship Earth, I feel like it's just a law. I have to go on Spaceship Earth no matter what. But we've had so many great times, not even riding one ride, just being able to say, "Hey, you know what? Let's just go to Epcot today, and let's just stroll around the countries and spend some time in the stores, and just try the different food and the drinks, and all that stuff." So for me, I think it's always don't think it's all about the rides, because it's not. It's still the Disney bubble, as I call it, which there's no other place like it. As cool as Universal is, and again, it's right down the street, it's super cool. You don't get that same blissful feeling when you're at Universal that you do at Disney.

Ben Smith:

Derek, and I'll just jump in on that point, because it just feels like the detail, everything is the detail. You walk into each resort, and they have their own signature smell. One of our first trips with my son, that we took, we stayed at Art of Animation because Cars was his favorite movie.

Derek DeBoer:

Of course.

Ben Smith:

So we had to stay in the Cars part of Art of Animation. But then you go to the pool, and you go underwater in the Little Mermaid pool, and what movie do you hear piped in as sound in the Little Mermaid Pool, is the Little Mermaid movie as you go underwater. Who's experiencing that, just they go underwater for 10 seconds at a time. But the little things are just... And it's pervasive through the whole culture. It's just the extra experiences are the thing that just puts it over the top, is you just keep looking for it. To your point about every little thing, if you just pick a moment, enjoy those experiences, it's just really cool to see. So that's one of the things that we just love about it ourselves.

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah. I mean, I see it every time I go to the Magic Kingdom. And again, I'm blessed, yes, because I get to live here and I could go almost whenever I want. But it's still just walking down Main Street, you get that feeling when you first come out underneath the tunnel and you see the Castle for the very first time, is you get to just stop and look at the details. Look at all the names, start Googling the names that are on the windows up and down Main Street. It's just so many people, because they're like, "This is my trip to Disney, so we are just going to put the horse blinders on, and we are going to go, literally, 24-hours a day. We're going to barrel right down Main Street. I ain't looking at anything because I need to hit Seven Dwarves in the Mine ride, and then I got to hit the Tron ride." And then I'm spending the whole time like this, because I got Genie Plus, so I'm doing whole-

Ben Smith:

Got to put the lightning lane... Yep, yep.

Derek DeBoer:

Makes me crazy.

Ben Smith:

Yeah.

Curtis Worcester:

I love it. I love it. Well, Derek, I know we obviously want to get into this concept of using Disney Vacation Club to snowbird from, in our case, Maine. I know in your case, it was Chicago area, but really doing that snowbird from Maine to Florida by using Disney Vacation Club. So on our show, we always like to start with the basics. And I know we talked about timeshares quickly in the intro, and generally, how they got such a bad rep. But what I want to ask you, Derek, is what did Disney get right? Or what did Disney learn from this timeshare perception, and how did it shape how Disney approached Disney Vacation Club?

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah, it's such a perfect question. Because again, once you say the word timeshare, people want to get the Brillow pad and start scrubbing themselves in the shower, and just be like, "Oh, I have a friend who has it," or "My grandma has it, and she never uses it, and I hate it so much."

There's a true story that when Disney Vacation Club started in 1991, Michael Eisner presented the idea, and he was like, he obviously liked it. But he said, "Listen, I can't stress this enough, if I get one whiff of high-pressure sales tactics, if I get one negative report of you guys hounding people in the parks," he goes, "I will shut it down." And that's why it's always had a different connotation, and especially in those early days, because I still have a lot of friends who are vacation guides from 1991. And they really had the belief in, A, they have a fantastic product. That for those folks that may not be familiar with just how it works, is it's not, excuse me, that traditional timeshare where I bought a week and I bought a room, and I have to go to that room, I have to go that exact same week to the same resort. But if I want to swap it out, then it's kind of a nightmare because someone has to want what I have, and what if no one wants it? Then I'm stuck at the same place.

Disney said, "Listen, we're just going to sell you points. So we're going to sell you a package of points, whether it's 50, whether it's 100, whether it's 200, 500, you're going to buy those points, but you're going to get them every year," so they kind of recycle. I like to tell people, "Tinker Bell flies in and says, boom, here you go. Here's your 200 points for 2024." Next year you're getting 200. Next year you're getting 200. You can vacation 365 days a year. There's no blackout dates, so it's not like you're locked in, again, to seven nights. So any day is check in, any day is checkout. It's just your room is going to be more points during Christmas than it is in the middle of September. A studio room that sleeps four, is going to be less points than if you did a grand villa that sleeps 12.

But if you're a family that likes to go for a week, then you could go for a week. If you're maybe someone that lives a little closer, and says, "Hey, I want to do," like I do, four to five little two, three-night staycations throughout the whole entire year, you can do that. So that's the biggest difference with Disney Vacation Club, is just the flexibility. You've got 14, really when you buy on the Resale Market, 14 amazing resorts that you could use them for. So you're a member of one, you're a member of all 14 of those Disney Vacation Club resorts. So one trip you say, "Hey, I want to stay at the Polynesian," perfect. Then the next trip you go, "I want to go to the Wilderness Lodge on the next one." And then the next one, what do you want to do for the next one?

So you have really the utmost in flexibility, and that's really the Disney difference, is if the club didn't work and people didn't like it, we wouldn't have the biggest buyer of points almost every year, on the direct side, and probably on the resale side, is members buying more, is members buying more. So if they bought this, and said, "I've had this for four years, I could never get anything. It never works. I hate it."

Curtis Worcester:

Dump it.

Derek DeBoer:

They're not going to say, "Hey, I want to buy 200 more," or "I want to buy 50 more." It's just the opposite, they're like, "Man, I wish I joined this club sooner because it's so easy and simple."

Ben Smith:

As someone that reads the social media posts almost on a daily basis with my wife, Kara, the official term, I think, is called add-on-itis, is the official term, right?

Derek DeBoer:

Yep. We have copywritten that term, and we actually have T-shirts as a matter of fact.

Ben Smith:

[inaudible 00:35:11], yep.

Derek DeBoer:

I'm going to send you guys some. I'll send you some.

Ben Smith:

So Derek, of course, as financial advisors, we like to do number crunching. That's our thing, is to get the numbers. And as you said, people go in with their spreadsheets, and they get their breakevens and what they're spending, and all that. Just walk us through just how it works from, as you said, there's points, but there's probably upfront cost to buy points, and then there's ongoing costs. Can just talk through what that typically looks like over the life of a contract?

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah, yeah. Great question. So you're basically looking at when people hear about the club, the number one thing is they obviously want to know how much does it cost. So that's where you literally have, I say, the two main costs, which is the first one is your one-time purchase price for your Disney Vacation Club points. So let's say I'm looking on the DVC Resale Market site, and I see something for, say, Animal Kingdom. And I might look to say, "Oh, okay, so this is a 200-point contract, and they're charging X amount per point." So maybe it's $99 a point, maybe it's $100 a point, whatever it is, you take that multiplied by the number of points. So if it's 200 points at $100 per point, that is your one-time purchase price, so that's the price that you're going to pay one time.

So 20 grand, but I'm going to get those points from Animal Kingdom every year, not just this year, not just next year, every year until the year 2057, those points are going to keep coming into my account. Then the only other cost that you really have, is what's called annual dues. So the annual dues are basically the upkeep for the resort. So every resort has different annual dues, so it's based on if I purchase Animal Kingdom, oh, I'm going to pay the dues per point for Animal Kingdom. Oh, if I buy Vero Beach, I'm going to pay the dues for Vero Beach, or whatever resort it is, that's just multiplied by the number of points that you buy. So just to throw it out there. So let's say the dues at Animal Kingdom are $8 per point. Okay, I got 200 points, so I'm going to take $8 a point times 200, that's $1,600 a year.

Those are your annual dues. Those are maintenance fees. And what I stress to people, because a lot of people go like, "I joined this club in a second, but I don't like paying dues. I don't like the lot of paying dues." But I can say, "You pay dues now." If you're going to Disney and you're renting a room, right? You have your upkeep of the resort, so you have your maintenance, it's your housekeeping, it's your landscaping, it's your security. You're paying that. Because Disney takes however much of that room night, so much of it is profit for Disney,. Whatever the other percentage is, whether it's 8% or whatever it is, those are the dues. So you're paying that anyway, and you want your dues because it means they're keeping the resorts up. There's a reason that we keep going back to Disney, is because it's the Disney quality.

So you want to tell people, "You don't want your dues to be a dollar a point because that means the grass ain't mowed, the pool's dirty, no one's watching the security, all of that." Those two costs are really it. So what it comes down to, and to put it in the most simple layman terms, is you say, "Okay, so if it's 200 points times $100 a point, that's a $20,000 purchase price." You just have to ask yourself, "How many trips do I have to take of renting rooms at Disney, before I spend that anyway?" Then you say, "Oh, so once I break even on that, gotcha, then I just pay the dues." So there's people that bought this, say five, seven trips ago. They got their dues this year for Animal Kingdom. They own 200 points. They're paying $1,600 for their rooms. Now, 200 points, you could probably stay at a deluxe Disney resort for 10, 12 nights a year, depending on the number of nights.

So then you take $1,600, divide it by even 10 nights a year. It means you're getting $160 to stay at the Polynesian, to stay at the Grand Floridian, to stay at the Contemporary, where those rooms are $700-plus a night. So that's where the money comes in, and you go, "Okay, well, it's kind of a no-brainer." Because I would rather, and again, I tell people because people say all the time, they're like, "Well, we're not really deluxe people. Because, Derek, you don't understand, when we go to the parks, we're fine staying at the All-Star, or Pop Century, because we're in the parks from 6:00 AM until literally 5:00 AM. So we just use the place to just go ahead and crash and sleep, so we don't need a fancy room."

But the point is, I don't care, for less money. Again, there's someone staying for $160 a night at the Polynesian. Why would you not rather stay at the Polynesian? I don't care if you're not even in that room.

Curtis Worcester:

Exactly.

Ben Smith:

That's right.

Derek DeBoer:

It's not like you're paying more money to not visit your room. You're spending less money and staying in a better room, which results in you having a better vacation.

Ben Smith:

And I'd argue you probably have more budget then, to do more things, if you wanted to. And you could go have a resort day because you save money, and there's lots of ripples to that.

Derek DeBoer:

And probably too, the biggest ripple is people take off that commando hat, and the spreadsheets of, "We're doing this every single day." Because once you're a member, you know you're coming back. So you literally could be on that trip, and say, "You know what? We'll maybe go to the Magic Kingdom once this trip. Because remember, next year, we're staying at the Poly, so we'll do a lot of Magic Kingdom stuff next year." So it takes that, "God, we got to cram everything in," because you've already got the next trip, and most members have the next five trips already planned.

Ben Smith:

Right.

And Derek, I want to ask the question, because I think this is really relevant, and I think to the point of timeshares and some of the negative connotation about it. But obviously, Disney, you can just go directly to Disney's website ,and you could buy Disney Vacation Club. But obviously, DVC resale and your company, you've created this secondary market, where people's already bought from Disney themselves, and then there's this whole exchange of buyers and sellers, and you can get that. So I think what's fascinating, is that there's a whole market that evolved, that hey, people are in there like, "Hey, I got my use out of it. I'm just not into it anymore, for whatever reason, and I want to go do other things," so that there is a viability of resale. So can you talk about how that evolved? Because I think that's just a fascinating history of how did that get to that point?

Derek DeBoer:

I'm always fascinated by it. And again, I give full credit to, of course, my boss and great friend, Nick. Who when he was always a top salesperson at Disney, a big question that every guest that he would meet with would say, "Well, what if I have to sell it?" And at that point, there really wasn't a company like ours, which is all stocked with former Disney people, with literally a billion years of experience working directly for Disney. The only other place you had back then was like, I think there's a place online, but they sell Hilton too, and they sell Holiday Inn timeshares, so maybe they could probably help you with your Disney timeshare." So he literally came up with this idea, and said, "I want to have a company where people feel comfortable coming if they have to sell." Because they're going to be dealing with Disney Vacation Club-trained cast members that, again, know both sides of the fence.

We don't just spiel, and say, "Listen, you have to buy the resale. Don't ever buy direct." We have a ton of people, that if it makes sense for them to buy direct, we say, "Great. Here's my friend. Call up my friend and they'll be able to help you." He just saw a tremendous hole in the fact of being able to help sellers have a place where they're comfortable with, to where we always like to say, not in a cheesy way, but you get the same Disney service, but without the Disney prices. So that's a really big one for us, just because people have that comfort level of dealing with... And I would say at least once or twice, or three, four times a week, someone will reach out to me to sell, and say, "Derek, I don't know if you remember me, but we were on a cruise in Europe back in 2018, and we bought our membership from you," or "We bought from you in Chicago at Disney's Doorway to Dream."

So people have a comfort level of dealing with trained Disney people, and that's where the market really exploded in being able to not only accommodate sellers, but also being able to say, "Listen, if you want to be a member of this club, you could buy on the secondary market. And we'll take all the questions, we'll take all the gray areas out. We'll literally tell you what you can and can't do on our website." So there's no surprises of, "Oh, my God, what did I buy? I know it's cheaper, but why is it cheaper, so I'm not quite sure." So being able to help buyers and sellers, is probably one of the most rewarding things for me.

Because some of the best stories you have are from sellers that reach out to us, and say, "Derek, I'm so glad that this family bought the Old Key West. We bought it back in 1992. My God, our kids have such great memories of it. But you know what? We've just kind of outgrown it. Maybe we haven't used it as much as we are in the past, but will you please pass the message on to the so-and-so family, that we hope that they enjoy it as much as we possibly have." So that's just the stuff that gives you a goosebump.

And of course, the people that finally buy too as well, that said, "Hey, you know what? We looked at this for the last six years. Every time we go to Disney, we pass by the people in the parks, or we sit with them and do it, but financially, we couldn't pull the trigger because it's so expensive, $215 a point. And I see I could buy this from you for maybe 100-and-some dollars a point." So those families that are finally able to get started, and the fact that we're able to play a role in them becoming a member and taking better vacations, so it's just kind of a win-win.

Curtis Worcester:

I love it. I love it. I want to go back to Ben and his goal of retiring for a period of time, whether it's weeks or months, at Disney by using DVC contracts. I guess, my question for you, Derek, how would you go about buying towards a goal like that, over time? Are there opportunities to purchase at better times than others? I guess, what comes to my head, during COVID, or maybe the financial crisis back in '07, '09, were people selling their contracts at lower prices during those times?

Derek DeBoer:

It's kind of interesting, and one of the busier times that we've ever had here, was during COVID. Which a lot of people would think, "Why would that be? Why would it be such a busy time on the Resale Market?" It's because thousands and thousands of people couldn't go on vacation. They use that time at home to say, "Well, we ain't going to Disney World because everything's shut down, so why don't we use this time to look into what Disney Vacation Club is, and see if it's going to make a fit?" And that's where they would find us to be able to purchase, and say, "Hey, we were going to drop seven grand on a next Disney trip, so why don't we put that money and purchase a Disney Vacation Club membership, so then we're ready to go."

When it comes to retirement, it's one of those things where it's always kind of a pipe dream for a lot of people. When they join, they always hear, because they will look at, and especially if they see a larger listing. Because you can buy as few as 25 Vacation Club points, which well, a lot of people might say, "Well, what does that get you?" I mean, 25 points might get you one night at the Polynesian, or maybe two nights at Animal Kingdom, so not a lot. But then we've sold contracts, and you could go to Disney Direct and buy 2000 Vacation Club points. So when you look at that, you go, "Well, how long could I stay?" You could stay a long time. I mean, you can literally stay a very, very long time. Do most people start off and buy 2000 vacation points?

Curtis Worcester:

Sure.

Derek DeBoer:

Absolutely not, absolutely not. Because people will always get their feet wet, and they'll use it. The average resale package is always between 200 and 300 points, is on the resale side. For the direct side, it's usually about 150, 200. So it's a little bit less, just because it's obviously much more money to buy direct from Disney.

But they'll buy it, they'll use it, they'll get started with it. And they will, is when that add-on-itis kicks in, and people will add on points even before they've used their first set of points, so that happens almost every single day. So they might start off with 250, and then they'll use it, or start planning and look to say, "You know what? I don't want to borrow a lot, so I think let's buy another 100, or let's buy another 200, or let's buy another thing." And they'll continue to buy these smaller contracts, which is an interesting story, because when we would have people, say on the cruise ships, that would sit down, and they would tell us how they vacation. And they would need, because they're counselor, so you'd have to tell them, and say, "Listen, you vacation during Christmas week with nine of you, so you're going to need a grand villa, and you're going to need 800, 900, 1000 points."

And we would always have them, and suggest, just break it up into smaller contracts. So that way if they do have to sell down the road, if they have 1000 points. It's best if they have four 250-point contracts, so then if their life changes, they could, "Oh, I'll drop 250," or "I'll drop 500 of them."

Curtis Worcester:

It's an interesting point.

Derek DeBoer:

Because this is fully transferable, so this is fully willable, pass it on to the kids. So what people love about it too, is there's no hidden fees with that. So you go, "Okay, if I've got a ton of points, and if I can't make it, can I send my kids? Can my grandkids use this if I'm not there?" And the answer is absolutely they can. Anybody could use it. You just make the reservation form, and they check in like normal. They're not treated any differently whatsoever.

It's just for the people with larger point packages, what tends to happen, and what they like about it, and you touched on it too, is the flexibility of just being able to not be tied down to one place, not having to pay maintenance fees, or whatever it is, for eight months of the year when I'm not there, I still have to pay it. Whereas this, okay, if I buy enough points, I could maybe come down in the winter months, but depending on who's coming with me. So I might say, "It's the holidays. We're going to have the kids and the grandkids. We're going to do a grand villa at this resort for a week during the holidays."

Then holidays are done, everybody goes back home. So now we're going to switch over, and move over to Animal Kingdom. And it's just the two of us, and maybe we're going to stay in a studio Savannah-view room for a couple of weeks, then we'll do the one-bedroom for three weeks at a different resort. Then we're going to go back home. But the older kids are coming with their kids, without us, so we're going to have them be able to use the points.

We have people that will buy large packages, will sometimes do it under their company name, which is very, very common. And being able to give out points, give out, basically, vacations as incentives, so that's a big one. So we've had a lot of people will do that, and say, "Listen, instead of giving away these prepackaged trips that whatever it is on an Apple Vacations, or a Sandals retreat, we're going to say, "Hey, if you're the salesman of this quarter, you're going to get two weeks at a Walt Disney World Deluxe one-bedroom grand villa." And they just make the reservation for them, and go ahead and do it.

So there's no hidden fees for things like that too, which is super nice. Because a lot of other timeshares will, they will nickel and dime you to death. That if you're not using it, then you've got to pay a guest fee. If you're going to bank your points, you've got to pay a fee. If you're going to borrow points, if you're going to use it for somewhere else, you got to pay a different fee. So what is nice with Disney, is there's no hidden fees whatsoever.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, yeah. No, that's fantastic. I want to keep going here, Derek. And Ben and I have heard from you and your team on your YouTube channel, the average ownership duration of a contract is 10 to 12 years. It seems interesting to us, right? Because obviously, the contracts are 50 years in duration. Does that speak to the ease of selling a contract, that there's much more turnover? Or the maintenance fees maybe were more than they thought, life goals changed, a mix of all the above, something else I missed there. Can you just speak to that?

Derek DeBoer:

Of course, of course. Yeah. People will always say when they join the club and sit down with us, or when they join for the first time, it's always, "Well, just say, I'm never going to sell this. I just want you to know I'm never going to sell it. We're going to ride this thing out till 2060 or 2050-something, whatever it is." And I go, "Listen, you never know what life's going to bring." That's the biggest thing that I can stress to people, is we sold over 6,000 contracts last year, so over $95 million. And probably all of them at one point or another, when they first joined, said, "I'm never going to sell it." But for whatever reason, life happens.

So the biggest ones are vacation patterns change. So if people have had it for a while, they literally might be like, "You know what? We're kind of done with the Disney stuff. I think our kids are kind of outgrowing it, but, Derek, we've love this. This has been one of the best things that we've ever bought, but we think we're done." Obviously, there's other situations that may come about, like a divorce may happen, or you might have a job loss that can happen to as well. The death of a spouse can also happen too, where they say, "We've had this thing for 20-some years, we love it, but I can't go back without him or her," and I totally get that.

So whatever your reason is, it's not like we ask you to fill out an essay form, and then we'll approve it if it's a good reason or not. Whatever your reason is, because we've heard everything under the sun. But yeah, we are there to help you sell it, and that's the best part. And we had talked about that before we started recording, is that at least you have a place that you can sell it. That if you're not going to Disney and taking Disney vacations, I'll tell you right now, don't buy this.

Curtis Worcester:

Exactly, right. Sure.

Derek DeBoer:

It's a terrible purchase if you're not going to use it and you're not to take Disney vacations. But if you are, it's a no-brainer. That's why the number one phrase in all of Disney Vacation Club, whether you buy resale or whether you buy direct is always, "I wish I did it sooner." Because I hear it every single day, "God, Derek, five years ago, we walked by and we started talking to you." Or "We looked at a booth and we looked at the club, and we said, I don't know, whatever." Five years later, every year, they kept spending the money, spending the money. And they realized, and said, "God, I wish I could have got something, got started with something."

Ben Smith:

Well, Derek, I want to ask maybe some rapid fire questions. Because there may be many questions that you might have, and again, just thinking about if I'm going to stay, basically it's just a really long vacation is kind of what we're talking about. It's like if I'm staying for six or eight weeks, or 10 weeks, or whatever, it's just a long vacation. So just things I don't know, is well, before you go and put all the money into something, and then I go to stay for 30 days, is there any restriction of staying at any location, whether it be a property, or it's a Florida thing where you can't stay in... So is there a restriction on how long you can stay at a property?

Derek DeBoer:

Yep, 30 days.

Ben Smith:

30 days.

Derek DeBoer:

30 day. And 30 days, you can check out and then check back in, but it can't be more than a 30-day consecutive stay. So we've talked to members over the years, and one of them was very involved in the early days of the DVC show. And he had a tremendous amount of points, and he would come down, and he would do just that. So he would stay for 30 days at Old Key West, and then he would of course, check out, and then he'd check back into a different room. But you do have a 30-day limit, so it's not like you can hold up base for three months. You do have to stop it after 30 days, and you could check back in. If that room happens to be available, you could stay in there. Or if not, you just have to move to a different room or a different resort.

Curtis Worcester:

Got it.

Ben Smith:

So basically, I can go again, Old Key West. I did that for 30 days. I go into Polynesian for one night, and then I go back to 30 days. And I can just keep... That's okay. Okay. That's just good to know. You go towards these plans, and you go, "No, you can't do that," then that just sinks the whole ship. So question number two then, what's the risk that the annual dues, the maintenance fees goes out of control? So Disney gets hit with back to back class four hurricanes, and properties need repairs, and I think that's in the back of the mind. Are there maintenance fee caps anywhere, something where there's protection anywhere?

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah. Or you hear it, I would hear it all the time, like "What if I get hit with a special assessment?" Or what if this happens or that happens? The best thing about the dues, and it's kind of twofold, is there is a Florida state law that says the dues can't increase more than 20% a year. I can tell you they ain't coming anywhere near that. The average increase per year over the last, and they've got a 30-year history of this, is anywhere between probably three to five, maybe 6% in increase per year. And the reason that that is, is the largest owner of Disney Vacation Club Points is Disney Vacation Club. So they sell 98% of all the inventory that's out there. So at each resort, 98% of all the inventory is for members who have points to be able to book.

Which leads to a question that we sometimes get, is "I don't understand. I went online to go try to book a stay at Animal Kingdom, and it said it was all booked. But I could go to disneyworld.com and they have a studio room available, so why do I have a membership?" And the reason it is, Disney keeps 2% of all the inventory so they could rent it out for bookoo bucks. But that helps with the dues, because if Disney pays dues on 2% of all the Disney Vacation Club resorts. That is a tremendous amount of points, that if for some reason, Disney goes, "We're going to jack up the dues 19% this year," they got to pay dues on 2% of all the inventory. So financially, it's an insane thing to do. But to touch on the hurricane thing, which is very, very important, is a big chunk of everybody's annual dues is reserves, so they've already taken the money out.

So for example, when Disney's Vero Beach Resort, which is about two hours from Disney, my favorite Disney Vacation Club Resort, I just absolutely love it. We go three times a year. It's terrific. A couple of years ago, maybe five or six, I can't remember when, they got hit with two hurricanes within a two-month span. Destroyed their whole dock and their pier, members didn't have to pay any special assessments or any fixes to the roof, or any structural damage that was done, because that money was already taken out in reserve. So Disney, over the 30-plus years, they've never had a special assessment at all, whatsoever, so you can rest easy with that.

Ben Smith:

Gotcha. Last one there, so exchange options. So you made the point about "I don't go to Florida anymore, now I want to go somewhere else." So I don't want to go Florida, but I want to go do other things. Are there exchanges valuable enough? Because I think the whole, "Yeah, you can do it, but you kind of get pennies on the dollar." I guess that's the question too, of you talked about the 14 resorts, and obviously, within Disney World itself, but what are the other things that maybe you might be able to do with those points?

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah, so when you purchase on the Resale Market, again, you do have some restrictions. Which basically is, you could use your points at the 14 original Disney Vacation Club Resorts. So that includes many of them down there at Walt Disney World, one out there in Disneyland, Hilton Head and Vero Beach, and Hawaii, so they have Aulani. You can also use your points to exchange them through a travel partner that Disney uses, called Interval International, which has thousands of different resorts all over the whole entire world. Like you touched on, you can use your points for those. It's probably not the best use of points. You will always find the best use of your Disney points, is for using them at a Disney Vacation Club Resort.

One great option that you have with us, is because we're the world of DVC. So we have a rental company, the DVC rental store. We have a financing arm called Monera, and of course, we have the DVC Resale Market. You could swap your Disney Vacation Club points out with our rental partner, for just about any vacation that you can possibly think of. So if you want to swap it out for cash and go to wherever you want to go, great. If you want to do just a swap for points, to take things like a Disney cruise, which we'll again, use, versus booking with Disney, you're going to save about 30 to 50% of your points to do a swap program for that exact same cruise with us than if you did it directly through Disney. You could swap out your Disney Vacation Club points for Universal Resorts right here in Florida. You could swap them out for Universal tickets. You can swap them out for Sandals Resorts. You could swap them out for vacation homes that are right here, probably 15 minutes away from Walt Disney World.

So if you want to do a huge family reunion at your own private house, you can swap out your points for that. So us being able to look at, to say, "Okay, so Disney would always say, "Well, if you buy on the Resale Market," they always wanted to give you FOMO, so they always wanted to give you the fear of missing out. Well, what if I buy on the Resale Market? Well, they would say, and still do, "You can't use your points on a Disney cruise, so you can't do that." And people go, "Oh, that stinks, because I, one day, wanted to take a cruise."

What they don't tell you is how horrible it is to use your points on a Disney cruise. I mean, it's hundreds of points per person, so hundreds of points per person. So at least if you want to do it, do it with us, just because you'll save 50%. So a cruise would be 500 points total, you could do it with us for 250, so it's the exact same cruise. Is this going to fit every type of vacation need that you possibly have? Like, "Oh, I want to come down here and use it to go stay in someplace in Destin, Florida," or "I want to go to Myrtle Beach." I mean, technically, could you, through the exchange program? You probably could, but it's just not the best use of points. I mean, buy DVC for DVC.

Ben Smith:

Yeah, but I think Derek, I think the point is you're not just, to your point about timeshares. The timeshare at the one resort, one room, one week, you are just locked right in. So I think that's just helpful to paint the picture of there's a lot of more creative uses that are probably even happening every day, and that you can continue to do with that. So I think that's really important.

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah, it's a huge point, because I could use myself as an example. I bought a place called The Boardwalk in 1999 as my home resort. I haven't stayed there since, I think, 2009 I think, was the last time I probably stayed at the Boardwalk, just because we stay at all the other ones. We just really like them all for different reasons. We just asked the kids, and said, "Hey, we went online, we've got some points." And we said, "Where do you want to go in June for a little staycation for two nights?" And we said, "You got the Poly, or you have the Wilderness Lodge." And they're like, "Wilderness Lodge," so we just didn't booked it. So they're all great, but for different reasons. So yeah, people will buy whatever their home resort is, which is the one resort that you purchase, to where your deed is. You're not contractually, that you ever have to stay there. So if you never wanted to stay there, you don't have to. It makes no difference at all, none.

Ben Smith:

I love it. I love it. So I'm going to keep going here actually. And I have another question, it's kind of a multi-part question that I want to ask here. So again, thinking about those people who want to stay somewhere for weeks or a month at a time, I know you just explained that 30-day rule. Of course, I'm thinking in my head if I'm going to do that, I'm going to need to pack more things than I would for a typical vacation. So obviously, clothing at the basic level, then you have things like food, you have personal property, travel, really anything that you use in your daily lives. What's the solution for that? Is there storage units? How do current DVC owners accomplish these long stays?

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah. So obviously, if you stay in a one-bedroom or a two-bedroom, or a grand villa, you have a washer and dryer in your room. So it's literally, you have a full kitchen in your room. You've got a oven, you've got a full stove, you've got all that stuff in your room.

If you're staying in a studio, which is a smaller room, you do have access to free laundry, so you can do that. We have a lot of folks that will rent, and there's companies that rent them. I cannot remember the name off the top of my head, but they're bins. So it's like a company, I can't remember what it is. It's going to make me crazy, Purple Box, or something. Oh, it's going to make me nuts. And they might not even be the type of family that come down for long periods of time. It might be there for one week or maybe two weeks, but you could rent, basically, storage bins. So if you know I need this stuff, they drive it over to the hotel, they drop off your bin with all your stuff in it. You use it during that whole entire trip, put it back in the bin, and then they take it back, and then they go ahead and store it for you.

Curtis Worcester:

So I appreciate that. So quick follow-up question on the food piece. I heard you say full kitchens, right? Assuming that means no issues with me bringing food, groceries and things like that, onto property, anything like that? Okay, just checking a box, just making sure. It's a great full kitchen, but I can't bring groceries in. Just wanted to make sure we're good to go.

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah, you don't just have to purchase the overpriced Disney groceries. You can go, you can have Publix delivered.

Curtis Worcester:

I love it.

Derek DeBoer:

Do they sell the bare minimums at every Disney Vacation Club Resort? Yeah. So they sell eggs and frozen pizzas and stuff, but go to Publix. So yeah, we live, again, 20 minutes away. So when we stay, I'm not spending $11 on a Bud Light, so I will pack up my cooler like the Beverly Hillbillies, and I will show up and be happy as can be.

Curtis Worcester:

I love it. I love it.

Derek DeBoer:

Because I'm not spending all that money. So yeah-

Curtis Worcester:

I love it.

Derek DeBoer:

Bring in any and everything you need.

Curtis Worcester:

Perfect.

Ben Smith:

Well, Derek, I know obviously, we, Retirement Success in Maine, it's a show about aging. And part of aging, is that we eventually reach an end date, and I think you talked about this a little bit. So process of transferability and inheritance of our contract, so I want to ask the part two of that. Is that also our DVC contract's a good thing to leave someone? Because the question embedded in that is, are we putting a loved one on a hook for annual dues that they didn't sign up for?

It's like, "Hey, my son, Caden, great, here's a great thing for you, but for the next 25 years, that you're going to be on the hook for some annual dues." So that's just, I think, a natural question of, "Hey, our own end dates, and whether it would be better to not leave it to them, and just give them money, if they wanted to go buy it themselves, if they wanted to do that." Or "Geez, we already have the value out of this already. We've already paid upfront with all this money, and only have annual dues going forward." So I guess that's the pro and con, is how would you weigh that out?

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah. I mean, we have a lot of people that will do the first scenario. Which is, "Hey, my kids have grown up with it, they love it, but I talked to them about it, and they don't necessarily want to take on the annual dues. So we know that it's all paid off. I tried to explain the value to them, of how much it's going to cost to rent a vacation, but you know kids," and blah, blah, blah. So that's where they go ahead and sell it. We've had other people will go ahead and transfer it on to the kids, and maybe the kids keep it for five, six years. And again, they turn around and they might sell it. So they might still go ahead and use it, but yeah, you can fully go ahead, you could pass it on to the kids, you could have others be able to use it.

Now it's obviously the best to talk to the kids to figure out, especially if they're the ones that have grown up with it, and just explain to them and say, "Listen, this is our contract, so we pay. As you know, the rooms that you stay in, we would never stay in them if we didn't buy Disney Vacation Club. But every year, mom and dad pay $1,600 bucks a year for us for this. So if something were to happen, or something may be happening, whatever that is, are you comfortable with taking this on?" So a lot of times, the kids go, "Yeah, it's no-brainer. My God, I just priced out the last trip that we all took, and it would've been a $9,000 room. But we got it for, obviously, $1,600."

So every family's different, but whether you pass it on and they decide that they don't want it, so you can sell it before you pass it on. If you want to pass it on to them, and then if they decide to go ahead and sell it, it's nothing that can only be resold once. So if you need to buy it... Because people ask that, and say, "Can I resell a resale contract?" We're like, "Yes. It happens every day, every day."

Ben Smith:

So Derek, I guess as part of that though, so say obviously, as you said, willable, right? So I can put up my will, and it could go through the probate process. And it could be sold, and get value for the estate. But I think part two of that, is there anything that says, "Hey, it's not going anywhere." Does it resort back to Disney? If I say, "Hey, I don't really have any plans for this," what happens in that case/. If I passed away and I've not really named an heir to it, or what happens?

Derek DeBoer:

Then it's just foreclosed on.

Ben Smith:

Okay.

Derek DeBoer:

So it's just foreclosed on. And so that's-

Ben Smith:

Just like any other property.

Derek DeBoer:

Like any other piece of property. So people ask, and say, "So what if I have it, and if I don't pay the dues on it?" We're going to foreclose on it. They're going to take it away, and they're going to foreclose on it. So, yeah.

Curtis Worcester:

Got it.

Ben Smith:

Gotcha. Which is essentially the solution if you said maintenance fees did go out of control, and no one could afford it, and the prices went down to a dollar. And nobody then wanted it, and you just said, "Well, how do I get out of this thing?" And that would be the answer essentially, would be to get foreclosed on essentially.

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah. Or just give it to us and let us sell it. Just make sure your dues are up to date. We can't sell anything if it's got a lien against it, if it's got any of that, we ain't touching it with a 10-foot pole, because we have to look up your deed and everything else. And it happens more often than not. Why don't you turn around and sell this? And you go, "Okay, great."

So we bought it a year ago, that's always kind of a red flag, just because something probably happened that made them want to go ahead and turn around and sell it. Especially if they bought it direct, say, from Disney, and they took out a loan on it. So it's always like, "Okay, so we're going to suggest that you sell it for XXX amount. But then after the commission and fees to Disney, you can use this money to go ahead and pay off your loan. But if it's not enough, you have to cover the balance, because you can't sell something that you don't own, so you have to do that." And they go, "Oh, my God. Well, that's like 5,000 more dollars." Well, you can't use this to go on vacations with it, turn around and sell it and get all your money back.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, yeah. Good, it was an A for effort, I guess. We'll give him a checkbox in the good try column. Derek, I have one final question for you. We've reached the end of our conversation with you, but I first wanted to say thank you again, for coming on and sharing your expertise with us and our audience. This has been such a fun, informative conversation, so thank you, thank you, thank you. Again, the final question here for you, I'm going to change gears a little. Based on the couple hours I've known you, I think we're going to stay in the same realm with the answer here. But obviously, the name of our show, Retirement Success in Maine, I want to ask you, how are you going to find your personal retirement success?

Derek DeBoer:

Such a good question. And I can't believe that it took me so long to bring this up, that my dad lives in Asheville, but he goes up and spends the summer in Whiting, Maine.

Curtis Worcester:

All right, okay.

Derek DeBoer:

So all the way up there, is it called the Down East, or down... What's it called?

Ben Smith:

Yeah, Down East.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, yeah,

Derek DeBoer:

Yeah, Down East, that's it. So up there by Whiting, we love visiting up there.

Curtis Worcester:

All right.

Derek DeBoer:

And we went to [inaudible 01:11:23] a few years ago, and of course, I had to do the Bar Harbor thing. It's fantastic. My kids still talk about that, their time up in Maine with our hikes that we did all over the place, and seeing the lighthouses was one of the best trips that we've ever taken. And we didn't use one Disney Vacation Club point for it

Curtis Worcester:

Sounds like we need to start a Maine Vacation Club.

Derek DeBoer:

Exactly, exactly. My retirement plan, which is kind of funny, because I specifically sitting in a college class as a freshman, which was many, many moons ago. And I remember the guy saying, "If you're going to think about retirement," he goes, "You guys are young." He goes, "Just start now." He goes, "If you put away $100 a month," I'm remembering this day. And you see all these kids in class, and they're not paying attention, they're doodling and all this stuff. Meanwhile, those people that did, are sitting pretty. So that's why the biggest thing that you have, is just time. So I've always tried to just make sure that I have time not only financially, for what my goals are, but it's be able to spend time with my kids. And never having them want for anything.

I'm not the kind of guy showers them with, "Oh, it's time for your first car, and here's a BMW for your very first car." No, it's always, "Hey, you know what? You're going to like this used Toyota Camry, because it's amazing, and we've always bought Toyotas." So I always viewed, and I think it was how I was raised, was always been spending time as a family was much more important than any kind of superficial gifts, per se. So it's always, we drove a car forever. We weren't the family that always had the biggest house on the block. We weren't the family that always had the fanciest new cars, but we were the family that every year, they go, "God, you guys go away on vacation every single year," whether it was road trips or things like that.

So my retirement plans are... I mean, I'm 51 now, so my retirement plans are I'd love to keep working as long as I can, because I'm blessed that I get to do what I do from home.

Curtis Worcester:

You love it.

Derek DeBoer:

I don't have to... I've done all the corporate life and the commutes to and from work, so I would love to be able to just continue to do I do. Because to me, and it's not to be cheesy, but I'm a cheese ball. But there's no other product in the world like this, to where every single day, I get an email or a phone call, I swear to God, where someone says, "I just want to say thank you," or "Here's a picture from our family's last vacation. We never would have done this if it wasn't for you." It's not like you don't buy a car and drive it a year later back to the dealer, and say, "Hey, Frank, I just want to say, I love this car." But there's something about Disney Vacation Club, that it just allows you to help so many people, that I'd love to be able to keep doing this for as long as I can. I would love it.

Curtis Worcester:

Love that.

Ben Smith:

Well, and I think that's something where we've awakened to too, as financial advisors, is what's the purpose of money? And what's the purpose of life? And I think the intersection of the too, is to say, "Hey, we have limited, finite amount of time on this world, and enjoying the people we love, and our families and our friends, and creating memories, and having fun together and enjoying it, and Disney represents that."

And you just explained the same thing about State of Maine, is we kind of see the same thing of all the generations of family, coming back to the State of Maine as well, and doing their camps together, and swimming together, and campfires and evenings, and we just see that so much. And I think that's just probably what we're exploring today, was just the reverb in reverse of that, is just, "Hey, here's months where you don't want to be a certain place," and you go to that. So Derek, thank you so much for coming on our show, and going through all that. And again, it's fun to explore all these interweaving themes and ideas. And yeah, we'd love to kind catch up with you at some point down the road, and thanks so much.

Derek DeBoer:

I would love it. And again, thank you guys so, so much. This has been one of the most fun shows that I've done in a very, very, very long time, so thank you guys very, very much.

Curtis Worcester:

That's awesome.

Ben Smith:

This was great. Catch you next time.

So episode 97. Again, I appreciate everybody bearing with us on this one. Derek, obviously, DeBoer, really awesome, knows this stuff around Disney's Vacation Club. Lives it, breathes it, passionate about Disney clearly. And it's just something where my wife and I, Kara, we've just grown with Disney over the years. And just kind of said, "Hey, I think this makes sense," for all the reasons, I think, Derek lined up, it was all that.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, yeah.

Ben Smith:

So we're actually working with Derek right now, on our own first contract. So Animal Kingdom Lodge is our resort we're choosing into. So again, you got to go through a process, and there's a right of first refusal. But again, this is the thought, is, "Hey, how can we research this," to "Maybe there's another different way to go about that snowbirding process."

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, for sure.

Ben Smith:

Hope y'all learn, even if it was like, "Hey, it's not really, you're not Disney people." But I think the point is being a little of flexible, or looking at things in a different way, I think, is another way to just learn. And not just being like, "Oh, I thought you had to go buy some house or duplex somewhere, and I had to go find the place to go do it." And I think you get so laser-focused into one path, it can lock you into something that maybe there's better options available if you just widen the lens a little bit. So that was the goal of exploration today.

So as I said, episode 97, we're going to have a lot of links out there, to Derek DeBoer's company, and his social-

Curtis Worcester:

Socials, yeah.

Ben Smith:

And contact information will all be there. So if you go to blog.guidancepointllc.com/97 for episode 97, you can go see all that. Again, we love to hear from you, so if you see the release on our Facebook page, LinkedIn page, things like that, love to hear your comments on it. How did you like the episode? What did you learn from it? We'd love to interact with you there. So we appreciate you tuning into our show, and we'll catch you next time.