Transcript:

Ben Smith:

Welcome everyone, to The Retirement Success in Maine podcast. My name is Ben Smith. Allow me to introduce my co-host, The Lost Kitchen to my Primo, Curtis Worcester. How you doing today, Curtis?

Curtis Worcester:

All right, I'm doing well, Ben. Doing well.

Ben Smith:

Of course, when you start throwing out names like Lost Kitchen and Primo, I'm pretty hungry to start, right?

Curtis Worcester:

Yep.

Ben Smith:

I'm already hungry, and there's one thing that you and I both agree upon is that we are really both passionate about really great food. Right?

Curtis Worcester:

Yes. That is true.

Ben Smith:

And that's probably bled into our show here a little bit, is every... We've had our travel expert, Keri Forbringer Hetherman on, so we've gone through that with episodes 3, 32, and 70, about traveling and introducing food in your travel mix and building your itinerary around it. Episode 59, we had the creator of Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives, David Page, right?

Curtis Worcester:

Yep, That was a good one, yep.

Ben Smith:

Talking about really how to experience food and some tips and tricks about going out to restaurants and what to order, what not to order. But one area that we really haven't gone to is how to experience the best of the best foods in our own backyard, the state of Maine. That's what we wanted to have a show about. I know after we get done this episode, I'll have a much better idea of what I'm going to do for lunch today.

Curtis Worcester:

That's right. That's right. Obviously, Ben, you just teed it up there. We really want to talk about food in the state of Maine. I can't think of a better guest than who we have on our show today. We have actually The Maine Foodies. They are food bloggers that have been documenting their main food adventures as a hobby since 2020. The Maine Foodies live in Portland, Maine's Art District, and are passionate about supporting their local Maine restaurants, bars, and farms across our beautiful state. They're continuously seeking the best food and drink experiences Maine has to offer.

Their content on their website, so Instagram and TikTok, along with their website, have been connecting their audience to inspiring food and travel experiences across the vacation land and beyond. And when I say that they're connecting, I mean it. Their content reaches 460,000 people, and about 24,000 interact with their stories on a monthly basis, which is just incredible. Along the way, they've partnered with Duncan, Maine Spirits, Oakhurst Dairy, Stonewall Kitchen, The White Barn Inn and Wild Maine Blueberry Weekend. You, yourself, can join their 27,000 and growing followers on Instagram and TikTok, by searching for The Maine Foodies. With that, please join me in welcoming Alexis and Erik Dirkmaat to the Retirement Success in Maine podcast. Guys, thank you so much for coming on our show today.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Thank you for having us. We're so excited to be here.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, Thanks Curtis, thanks Ben. Looking forward to chatting.

Ben Smith:

Well, and I got to say, just first thing, you have our permission, pause our show, just hit pause, go to Instagram, go to TikTok.

Curtis Worcester:

That's right.

Ben Smith:

Search The Maine Foodies right now, because I want you to be looking at what Alexis and Erik are coming up with. I want you to be able to see some of the things we're going to talk about here. Go follow it, bring up your phone and let's get into it. But the first part we always start our show is, we always want to hear a little bit more about you both. Love to hear about your story, where you're both from and what brings you to Maine.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

I love it. Yes, happy to dive in. I think, first and foremost, we get this question a lot and so we just want to put it out there, we are definitely from away. We have a very strong affinity for Maine and absolutely love Maine, but we are not Mainers, I guess, by definition, which I think a true Mainer would be quick to point out. But I grew up in Connecticut.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, and I grew up down South in Tennessee.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

And we both moved to Maine, officially, in 2020. That's really when we started The Maine Foodies, was right after moving up here. But my family has lived in Maine for a while now, so it was a great homecoming to be closer to them. And, gosh, it was back in 2016, but we did get married in Maine, so definitely have always felt that Maine connection.

Ben Smith:

Your married life is from Maine. Let's of put it out there.

Curtis Worcester:

There you go. There you go.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

I like that. That's perfect, yes. We'll go with that.

Ben Smith:

The followup question, here we go, it's 2020, there might be a little something that might have happened in 2020, right?

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yes, yes.

Ben Smith:

And here you guys are looking at food and thinking about food, and you say, "I want to just start a social media account that's dedicated to our food experience." Which, by the way, 2020 was a very weird food experience.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Such a weird food experience here, right? I know. It's funny, we actually started off, I think really, I don't know that we would've been here or not without the pandemic. It's really interesting. We found ourselves officially in Maine now, and just clamoring to try, of course, the lobster rolls, which I know we'll probably get into more in a little bit. But we're like, "We've got to get around and try. We've got to find the best lobster roll," basically. We started documenting that amongst ourselves. Right when COVID hit, we actually made an Excel spreadsheet. Is it the atmosphere of the place, which was a little hard to judge at the time, being everything's takeout, but the components of the lobster roll, et cetera. And then from there we just said, "I don't know, let's start sharing this." And I feel like that's where it was born. What would you say?

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, and so you'll see in our page, if you scroll back, a lot of takeout boxes, so it doesn't really look appetizing. We're really thankful that the restrictions have lifted and that we're able to get back to some more sense of normalcy in exploring the state and being back in person, because that really is, in my opinion, the best part.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yeah, that's true. That's true. Those early photos were like, how you make a takeout box look really cute?

Curtis Worcester:

We have this color styrofoam, we got some plastic. No, that's so great. Fast forward a little bit, you've been doing this now for pretty much two full years. Here we are at the end of 2022, incredibly. Was it surprising to you both, the growing reception you've gotten and have been getting still, about The Food in Maine Experience?

Erik Dirkmaat:

Well, it's funny, when you put content out on the internet, we started off doing it for ourselves, documenting almost like a diary of our experiences. But we've found through that documentation, that process, that food is really that universal connector. People have memories of different places they go, everyone needs to eat, and so yeah, we've had a great following, great interaction. We love getting recommendations from our followers, and it's been fun to grow that community.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yeah, I think it's very much a common language. We've found that regardless of folks' backgrounds or their walks of life, you can really connect over food. I think Erik brings up a good point; it's been fun as it's continued to grow, to even have more of that two-way dialogue. We know folks look to us for recommendations, but we also know that there's a lot of great recs that other folks have. It's been really fun to throw something out there like, "Hey, we're going to this area." Or, "We're looking for this type of cuisine. Does anyone have any recs?" And it's been amazing what we get back as well.

Curtis Worcester:

That's awesome.

Ben Smith:

Nice. Well, 'cause I know when we had David Page on, from Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives, one of the things that he was saying about the success of that show is that people like to eat with their eyes. Is that they really can... They see it and they can start smelling it, they can start hearing it, they can really start visualizing the food experience. Which obviously, I will say just from my own observations that, I don't think anyone has captured the way you guys have, in terms of that same experience of it. And I know obviously, from my own personal experience, my wife is a big Disney fan.

We watch the Disney Food Blog and what's going on at Disney with the food scene, but that's part of our experience, because it's part of our vacation. If we have good ideas on food, then those are things that, in the moment, don't become stress points. They don't become things that we argue about. "Oh, I feel like Chinese. I feel like pizza. That burger looks..." What do we do when we have finite options and that becomes stress points? That's where it just feels like that's a natural outlet for a place where people vacation a lot to, especially in the summer, to ease. And I don't know this, I didn't do a scientific survey, but it feels like that there's a lot of reason why that would grow because of that. Would you agree with that?

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Absolutely. It's funny, we get a lot of requests from folks that, I think Maine is having a moment, in general, in the travel space. It's very hot right now. It's a destination that a lot of people probably have on their bucket list. We definitely get followers that'll reach out and say, "I'm coming to Maine for the first time." And they really are planning that whole travel experience around the foods to try. I think the video-based content that we do put out there, it's pretty easy for folks to not only say, "Wow, this is the style of place I'm looking to go, but also specifically the dish." Or what it is they're going to order out of place, so agreed, 100%.

Ben Smith:

Curtis talked about your evolution and asked you about the last two years that you've captured. Let's fast forward here as you guys are working. This isn't the paying the bill stuff. How does your food blog evolve? Is it like, "Hey, this is still our hobby."? Or is this something where you feel like you're getting sponsorship and sponsored content? Does this grow even more?

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, obviously we're working on retirement. Maybe a couple more years away from that, but no, Alexis and I both have full-time jobs. Putting out this content, part of it is the experiences that we like to have. We are going out to eat, we are taking vacations and we're bringing our followers along with us, so that's still a natural fit. But as it starts to grow, the possibilities could be endless. If people like what we're doing and see value in it, it's exciting and we do want to keep doing it. I'll answer your question by, who knows? We're ready to go along on the ride.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

That's right.

Curtis Worcester:

That's awesome. I love that. Again, obviously the core of our conversation today, we just really want to talk about Maine and the food scene in Maine, some of the best foods in Maine. A first question we like to ask when we get into things, we just love to build this foundational knowledge. I want to ask you guys, how would you describe Maine food? What is it that makes the Maine food scene unique?

Alexis Dirkmaat:

I can start us off, I think. It's very much locally centric. When we think about food across the state, I think it's very connected to where all the ingredients come from. Whether that's farms, whether that's from the coast and the sea, whether that's from the oysters that are being grown in some of the rivers, it's just got this very, very core tieback to a sense of place. I think we always feel that and I think that's unlike a lot of other places in the country where you go to visit. I think there's some of those foods that you just unanimously equate with the state of Maine. I think of an oyster, a craft beer, a lobster. It's very, very iconic. And I think another interesting thing is our connection to the chefs here. I'd say folks are starting to understand more and more the different chefs behind some of the more award-winning restaurants, but that's growing in Portland and beyond, and so I think you're starting to see some of those chefs even have more following as well.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah. It's not only where your food is from, it's who's putting your food on a plate? And I think that's a really fun experience to go around and see all the creativity across the state.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, that's awesome. And you teed up my followup perfectly for me. Obviously Ben and I talk about on our show, no matter what we're talking about, it feels like sometimes Maine is two or three or four different states, just because of all the different geographies we have. Can you just talk about what are some themes you see in those different areas of Maine? I know you touched on a little bit with the coast. Portland does their thing, the coast may do a little different thing, the mountains, way up north in the potato field. Can you just talk about that?

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, for your followers and everyone listening, Maine is a huge state and it's an extremely diverse state in what is around geography; the mountains, the forests, the oceans, the lakes. I think some things across the state is there is great food and great experiences to be had everywhere. There's a lot of outdoor connection. Weather, season, everyone thinks of summer in Maine, but winter in Maine as well. The number of times we've been around a bonfire, you can share a drink and you're meeting locals and connecting over food, I think that's an extreme commonality as we've traveled.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yeah, I think I would add to that, I think, there's almost more similarities than there are differences. I think some of the core of the similarities across the state all tie back to that local centricity and that connection to the season for sure. A lot of the more experiential-based dining opportunities are very much rooted in the season. What we're doing in the winter, embracing being outside and cold and sitting around that campfire, like Erik mentioned, or in the summer, it's later in the evening and it's warm and you're sitting under twinkle lights or something like that, it's very much embracing that time of year.

But I do think there is definitely still some differences as well. I think Portland is very much the place that's on the map when you think about Maine. And so I think it definitely has a lot, and I think there's a lot of dining choices within the city and that surrounding area, compared to other areas that just don't have as many chefs and locations. But I think the thing that constantly surprises us is the caliber. Even when we're going to some of these more remote areas and you're like, "There's nowhere near as many options," they're so wonderful. You're like, "Wow, this could rank in Portland. It could stand its own there." I do think overall probably more similarities than differences.

Ben Smith:

Nice. Well, I want to ask another question here too, because it feels like as Mainers, and people that are residing here in Maine, and we're here for all the seasons, as you said, there's beauty in all of it. Maybe in February for a couple weeks-

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Maybe that's debatable.

Ben Smith:

... it's a little less maybe of where we want to be, but I know that obviously we all get the question where we have that family or that friend that comes from somewhere else and they come into Maine, either for the first time or maybe it's, "I only have a small window to be in Maine." And it feels like we all get the question, "Where should I eat? I'm from away. I want to experience Maine." What would you guys... You guys are the foodies here, so what would you say if they had a short window and you said they wanted them to try Maine, and Maine breakfast, lunch and dinner, what would you steer them towards?

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, well first I would tell them to go check out our blog. Go look at the Maine Foodies. Go look at that, because we've got a section specifically for that. But I think part of the recommendation when people come from away is you need to meet what they're expecting. Lobster rolls. They want water views, they want good beer and good times. Where can I drink? I think going along that line of thinking, you need to, in the back of your pocket, you do need to have them. Where can they go for good seafood? Where can they dine out and see the water? What lighthouse can they go tour and see? What tour can they go do? Because that's part of it too. You got to work up an appetite before you do go eat. And then one other thing that, as people visit and need to keep in mind when they visit is, make sure you have reservations. The population has exploded in Maine. The tourism is on fire as well, so if you do want to go and experience, have some reservations.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yeah, and I think I go back to those iconic foods I think folks want. Definitely lobster is number one on the list, but I think craft beer, oysters, blueberries. I know we have, again, we're in Portland, so this answer will be a little bit Portland-centric, but our go-to whenever we have someone visiting us is to go to Portland Headlight House, because I don't think anything else really personifies the Maine Coast better than those views at Fort Williams. And Bite Into Me and the Lobster Roll food truck is there, and there's just nothing better than enjoying that lobster roll looking at the Maine Coast. That's a definite for us when we have visitors.

Ben Smith:

Awesome tips.

Curtis Worcester:

All right, we've now gotten... We're about 17 minutes into this recording and I think we've mentioned lobster rolls five or six or seven times. My question now-

Alexis Dirkmaat:

What a surprise.

Curtis Worcester:

... we're doing it. We're doing the deep dive into lobster rolls. Obviously, there's a ton of debate here. I'll call it friendly debate. Sometimes it gets a little passionate, I think, but who has the best lobster roll? How should it be made? What's the ratio, lettuce to lobster? How much lobster is too much lobster? Is that a thing? What type of roll? Do we grill the roll? Is there lemon involved? Mayo? Extra crunch? You guys are the experts here. You volunteered to come on this show.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

We have [inaudible 00:17:58].

Curtis Worcester:

All right, what are your opinions on how to create the perfect lobster roll, and where have you found that is your number one lobster roll so far?

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, I think, step one, Alexis mentioned in the beginning that when we started The Maine Foodies, we started with an Excel spreadsheet to go keep track, because there are so many different offerings of lobster rolls. I think one of the first things that we did is she and I aligned on what makes a great lobster roll, because like you said, there are so many opinions and everyone's right. Everyone's right.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

[inaudible 00:18:28] answer.

Erik Dirkmaat:

In our opinion, a great lobster roll starts with the lobster meat. There's got to be ample claw. I want to be able to see it. I want the whole piece of it on a toasted bun, lightly chilled, little bit of mayo. Maine style is ours all day long. You're going to have a large contingent that say Connecticut style with the warm, drawn butter is the way. It's not for us.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Not for us. [inaudible 00:18:53].

Erik Dirkmaat:

Mayo.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Mayo all the way.

Curtis Worcester:

Mayo, yep.

Ben Smith:

All right.

Curtis Worcester:

White sauce, yep.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

And I know I plugged it before, but I would say we do really enjoy making our own at home. I will say that's been fun to go get some, either whole lobsters and then get the meat out ourselves, or just get local lobster meat and make our own at home. But if we're going to go out to get one, Bite Into Maine and their Maine classic style roll is definitely our number one.

Curtis Worcester:

All right.

Erik Dirkmaat:

As we have had followers come up and visit Maine, and as they're around, one of our favorite things in the summer is to do a classic lobster bake in the backyard and then make sure you buy enough leftovers so you can make that lobster roll for the next day or two.

Curtis Worcester:

That's right. It's almost like Thanksgiving. You got a plan for the following days.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

And that's a good point. I'll add, we actually get quite a few folks that reach out to us that are like, "You know what? I actually don't want the lobster roll. I want to know where I can go for that authentic lobster dinner." They want the boiled lobster, they want the corn, the potato, they want to wear the bib, I think. The whole-

Ben Smith:

The crackers, yeah.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

The crackers, exactly.

Ben Smith:

Nice. .

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Exactly.

Ben Smith:

Yep. Nice. Well, we covered lobster. The next part, I know that we have a unique and growing doughnut scene, depending on how you call it, is it a dough of actually made doughnut? Some are cake, some are dough, all that. Obviously there's a few throw downs right now going on around the best doughnuts in the state. Similar question, what are the qualities that you found elevate the best doughnuts and where can we spy some of these? Because I'm a doughnut fan. I'll put it out there.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, Ben, I am I too. I am definitely the sweet tooth in this relationship.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Sweet savory, for sure. I still love a good doughnut.

Erik Dirkmaat:

I have a lot of opinions, and again, doughnuts are a very personal preference. I like a classic yeast doughnut, light and fluffy, a delicious cream filling. I think doughnuts, what makes them fun, is they're portable and they're appetizing to look at. Everyone, "Do you want chocolate? Do you want caramel? Do you want a crunch? A fruit?" I think that's a lot of fun. And we found some great spots around the state. Some of our favorites, locally, here, a classic in Portland is Tony's, is a great one.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Old school doughnut shop, very classic.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah. Congdon's down the coast a little bit, in Southern Maine, in Wells is a great one, and then Ruckus.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yeah, in Rockland.

Erik Dirkmaat:

In Rockland.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

They make great doughnuts as well.

Erik Dirkmaat:

And they're a little bit newer. I think they just celebrated their anniversary here recently, this past year.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

First year, yeah.

Erik Dirkmaat:

And they're making some pretty amazing doughnuts up there.

Ben Smith:

Okay, so Curtis and I go to Rockland quite a bit.

Curtis Worcester:

I was literally there yesterday. Yesterday I was there.

Ben Smith:

Yeah, it's like, all right.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Well, you got to go early. They sell out. I will tell you, the first time we were up on the mid coast this summer, we slept in and by the time we got there, the sold out sign was on the door and we were crushed. We went a few weeks later and we got there nice and early. Pro tip, don't sleep in.

Ben Smith:

All right. But obviously, we talked about covering then, the doughnut, is... But then I know that there's things that not only make doughnuts unique, but then they're combined with other foods to make new dishes. I saw a post you guys had last summer, so summer of '21. You're at Congdon's in Ogunquit and they had a honey dipped doughnut with melty cheese, hanging over a bowl of tomato bisque, which was representing a grilled cheese and tomato soup. Just pours of cheese coming out of it. I guess my question here is, what other unique dishes have you been experiencing around doughnuts in Maine?

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Love it, and we love that dish, and that one's actually at Food For Thought in Ogunquit.

Ben Smith:

Oh, gotcha, okay.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

It's seasonal. Yes, it's a seasonal spot down there, but they do use the Congdon's doughnut, so great things going on there, and it is truly a grilled cheese on a glazed doughnut and it's heavenly. Highly recommend everyone adding that, especially as you're coming into the state. If you're headed up further North, that's a great little stop off. Definitely recommend visiting Food For Thought. But I have to say, I think that one probably takes the cake for the most iconic doughnut dish that we've tried. But we do love, for those that ski up at Sugarloaf, Eighty 8 Donuts has a great little brick and mortar shop right off the beach there, and they've got the little minis. They come out hot, and they also have a food truck in Portland, but their spot up there after skiing, which we just love that. That's another favorite.

Curtis Worcester:

I have another question, moving throughout, but now I have followups about the grilled cheese doughnut. Is that breakfast? What's the move with that? What time of day do you eat-

Alexis Dirkmaat:

That, we enjoyed that for dinner.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Well, and I think that's one of the things too, with food, there are no rules.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

That's true.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Eat what you want, when you want. Make sure you get your workout in, but have fun with it.

Curtis Worcester:

I love it. Perfect answer, perfect answer. Obviously, Ben and I, in our practice here with our team, we have quite a few foodie clients, and ourselves, I think we'll deem ourselves as being food fans, and fancy that fine dining experience. And you guys have a blog post out called Inspiring Must Do Maine Dining Experiences. Can you just talk about what are some of the highlights from your list, including some of the foods you sampled?

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yes, absolutely. We absolutely love those experiential-based dining. I'll say experiences again, but we love it. I think some of the highlights; this past summer, we had the opportunity to go out to Cabbage Island Clambakes, which is right off the coast of Boothbay Harbor. They take you out there by boat and you spend the afternoon with that traditional Down East clam bake, and it was so iconic with the little rocky coastline of Maine, and they're just putting those twin lobsters on your tray. It was delicious. That one is a must do. Reservations definitely need to be made when they open up in April. It's a tough one to grab, but highly recommend that. We also had the opportunity to visit the Lost Kitchen back in 2020, and I think that one has probably become one of the more famous experiences in Maine, with that really tough to get reservation by postcard, but it was nothing short of dreamy. I think what Erin French and her team are doing up there is very neat. Those have been very big standouts, but gosh, we also did Turner Farm-

Erik Dirkmaat:

Turner Farm.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

... for your birthday, which was [inaudible 00:25:33]-

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, this past July we went out to Turner Farm. Took a lobster boat out to the island, and yeah, it was great.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

A real lobster boat, and they take you out there. It's on North Haven Island, right across from Vinalhaven, out by lobster boat. You just pull up to this island, you can see the barn in the distance, and they do this farm-to-table experience right in the barn. And it was communal style tables, so you got to meet... You didn't know who you were going to sit next to. We ended up meeting folks, honestly, from all around the globe that were there at this dinner. It was a very cool way to connect with one another. And then talking about the mid coast, we actually got up to Rockland and Rockport this summer to try Primo, and that was fantastic. I think that was one that it was surprising we hadn't done yet, but always great. And so fun to explore the grounds there and just enjoy a glass of wine in the barn out back first.

Curtis Worcester:

It sounds incredible. I want to ask a followup here. We're talking about the Lost Kitchens, we're talking about the Primos. Do you guys have any just tips and tricks or hacks how people can go about securing reservations to places like this? I know the Lost Kitchen is unique and she does the postcard thing.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yes.

Curtis Worcester:

But anything you guys can share-

Alexis Dirkmaat:

That was a hope and a prayer.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

I think definitely following... I know we mentioned the chefs earlier, but following, in some instances, the chefs that are behind some of these experiences, on social media is a great way. Also, we'll make a plug for ourselves here. We like to remind our followers when it's time to make those reservations so you can follow us too. But I think you were saying go with friends as well.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, Alexis is... One of her strongest abilities is being organized with reservations. I have no part in this. It's really knowing. There are certain restaurants, for example, the reservations will open 60 days in advance. You need to call 60 days in advance to reserve your table. And so just be on top of it, make a list, know what you want to do, and then if you end up without a reservation, have your running list of which places allow walk-ins.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yeah, and I also think though, too, if you can band together with friends. Maybe you have some other foodie friends that you want to make these adventures with, and I think there's power in numbers by each trying to secure [inaudible 00:27:54].

Curtis Worcester:

That's great.

Ben Smith:

Well, I want to ask; we've covered doughnuts, we've covered lobster rolls, we've covered fine dining. This may might be more for Alexis, because she's the savory person here, so maybe it's more towards her, but cheeseburgers and fries, right? Iconic American, Americana dish. What, in your eyes, so I want to ask it a couple ways. What, in your eyes, is the perfect burger and french fries, and then I want you to spin it towards what's the perfect Maine burger and fries?

Alexis Dirkmaat:

I love it. I'll say, I think we can both agree, similar to the lobster rolls, I think we both have a similar preference. We'll go back to the ingredients. I think it's all about that fresh, probably grass-fed beef, if you're not a vegetarian, and going forward with that.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Whose bun is it on?

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yeah, whose bun is it on? That's a good one. Yes. And I would say, I think in Portland we definitely have a favorite. Wayside Tavern, which is in the West End, it's inside the Francis Hotel, they make a great smash burger with fries that is delicious and definitely worth trying. I think if we're going to go the more Grammy, iconic Maine route, High Roller Lobster in Portland also does a surf and turf burger. It's literally topped with lobster meat, and I think that's a pretty darn iconic Maine burger. But what's your favorite, Ben? Do you have a favorite spot? I'll turn the tables on you.

Ben Smith:

All right. All right, here we go. All right, obviously we're around the Bangor scene a little bit more. Blaze's in downtown Bangor, and they have super awesome burgers. I'm going to go with that a little bit there. And I'll say their fries are... I think they're duck fat fries as well.

Curtis Worcester:

Yep, yep.

Ben Smith:

Which I know is kind of a rip off on duck fat in Portland, I know.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

That's okay.

Ben Smith:

Blaze is my go-to burger place, and close second is Mason's, up here in Brewer.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, that was going to be mine, was Mason's, yeah.

Ben Smith:

Mason's, same thing, grass-fed smash burgers, a lot of double patties, different cheeses. They do bacon jam on it. Just awesome. Mason's, especially Mason's does craft beer. When you pair beer and burger together, so good.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, yeah, Mason's has-

Alexis Dirkmaat:

So good. I'm sensing maybe there's going to have to be a Blaze's and Mason's throw down in our future.

Curtis Worcester:

Uh-oh.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

And we might have to invite you guys and we can figure out whose wins.

Curtis Worcester:

Oh boy. All right. I love it. Mason's is big in the fry scene too. They do a lot of different dirty fries and loaded fries and things like that.

Ben Smith:

Vinegar fries, yep, yep.

Curtis Worcester:

[inaudible 00:30:43]. Yep. Oh gosh, I knew I was going to be hungry, but I didn't think I'd be this hungry.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

I know, same here.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, wow. I don't even know how to move on from this. Obviously, Ben... Actually, I do know how. We were just talking about Mason's, and they're a burger and beer joint, here in... And Blaze is brewing beer now too, by the way. I think their Camden location is their headquarter for their beer brewing.

Ben Smith:

That's right.

Curtis Worcester:

I am a big beer guy, or beer and spirits guy, I guess. Ben's the burger guy of the two, and I'll worry about the drinks. I got to ask about it. Just a general question to start off, how would you guys describe the Maine beer and spirits scene from a common theme?

Erik Dirkmaat:

Common theme, I'm going to put this out there, best in the country.

Curtis Worcester:

Love it.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah. I think some of the beer and spirits that's coming out of Maine rivals anywhere else. We've had the privilege of traveling to a bunch. You think of Colorado or Asheville, they're doing some great stuff, but I think some of our brewers and distillers up here are really just on point.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yeah, and I think it's one of the things when we do travel outside of Maine, we always comment to each other, "Gosh, no one's doing beer like they are in Maine." You just have that expectation of what craft beer is going to taste like, and you're somewhere else where that scene isn't quite as strong and it's like, "Ooh, just kind of misses that mark." I agree with you. I think definitely best in the country.

Erik Dirkmaat:

I think a commonality across the state is most everybody is doing a New England IPA, You're going to find that everywhere you go. Some people may say, "I don't like IPAs, I don't like this."

Alexis Dirkmaat:

That's true.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Something that I would recommend, if you're not a beer drinker or you're beginning into a beer drinker, there is so much variety. It's worth a try. Worth a sampler. We love a good flight of beer. See what you like, 'cause there's a lot of nuance.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

But I do think it's very IPA, double IPA new England style heavy. We had friends up visiting last summer and that's the one style of beer she will not drink, and it was a challenge. We're like, "Okay, we're going to find a spot." But Mast Landing does some nice stouts that fit the bill for that one. But yeah, I think, yeah, definitely so, so good. I think also such an iconic thing, when you think about the state of Maine and the food and drink.

Curtis Worcester:

I love it. I love it. Now I'm going to dive in a little bit. Both of you, I want you each to answer.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Okay.

Curtis Worcester:

What's your go-to craft beer company? Brewer, and then the signature beer that you go to?

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Okay, I'll start us off. This one's gotten so popular, but I always say it's gotten popular for good reason, 'cause it's one of my top favorites, is Tubular, at Orono Brewing Company.

Curtis Worcester:

That's our neck of the woods.

Ben Smith:

Nice.

Curtis Worcester:

All right. All right. I love it.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

[inaudible 00:33:23] yes, yes. So, so good. I know that's really blown up and it's probably not as niche as some of the others we could say, but I absolutely love that.

Erik Dirkmaat:

I feel like you have to say, at some point, because it really helped put the beer on the map, is Allagash Light.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

There's nothing more classic.

Erik Dirkmaat:

There's nothing more classic, it goes with everything, it's a little bit lighter. You'll see that in most places too, so when you leave Maine, you can... They distribute elsewhere-

Curtis Worcester:

Exactly.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Bissell Substance.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Bissell Substance is putting out some great stuff. Mast Landing, Good Fire, Lone Pine, there's so many, yeah.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yeah, but I'm going to go with Tubular.

Curtis Worcester:

I love it. I love it. It's a good thing we're doing this on a Friday too.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

That's right.

Curtis Worcester:

Not only can I go eat after this, I can go find some craft beers. Another followup. In the distillery and signature drink cocktail market, what are your go-tos there, each of you?

Alexis Dirkmaat:

You know what? We found a new craft distillery this summer that we are low-key obsessed with. It's all the way down in Wells, but it is worth the drive down there. It's called Wild Bevy. They just opened up and they're their own distillery, and the craft cocktails that they're putting out were fantastic. It's a beautiful space. That one's definitely top on our list. Cocktails in general, I think we both really enjoy gin, so we're definitely gin drinkers, but Wild Bevy would be our rec in terms of a spot to check out.

Curtis Worcester:

Awesome.

Ben Smith:

Dang.

Curtis Worcester:

Awesome.

Ben Smith:

I want to ask about, let's zoom back out. You've done a lot of the foods. Let's talk a little bit about, you've obviously been seeing, in terms of documenting food in the state of Maine, so I almost view this as not only just from the experiential, but you're also documenting the food scene in a real time basis. You're able to look at this and say, "Hey, here's themes and trends that are happening almost within these time periods." I guess my question is, where do you see the food scene going? Based on what we're doing now, and as you said, the experience with the chef, and you're seeing more of the relationship side here happening, how does the food scene continue to evolve in upcoming years in Maine?

Alexis Dirkmaat:

I think that's a great question, because in the, gosh, two-and-a-half years we've been pretty plugged into it, it's amazing how it's already started to evolve. I think we're definitely in that post-COVID environment, so folks are very much focused on that return to in-person and what those experiences inside the restaurant look like. I do think we're starting to see, whether it's a second location or it's folks moving outside of that Southern Maine area, I think that's going to start to become more popular. We went to 555 North recently, which is that longtime classic 555 staple in Portland. They're now up in Brunswick. And so starting to see more of that spread happen. I think there'll be more of that.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, and I think generally too, take a look at what's happening to the state in general. You do have a lot of influx of people from away. Because of social media, the awareness around how great Maine has always been and how great it is to come visit, I think that's really starting to push. There's going to be a little bit of a push and pull against the classics and the new school, but I think there's a really fun opportunity and playfulness there, of creativity, of how chefs, how business owners, how makers can reinvent how food is presented, and evolve things from a classic Maine experience to the new era of [inaudible 00:37:04]-

Alexis Dirkmaat:

And building off of that, I think a lot of pop-up style events and collaborations, where you're seeing chefs from different places come together, maybe in a totally different location that's maybe even a bit further remote and offering some of those opportunities for folks to experience.

Ben Smith:

What I think has been pretty cool, and to your point about collaboration is, again, you brought up Tubular, so I'll use Orono Brewing Company as an example, but here's Abe and Heather Furth. They go down to Portland, then they team up with Otto Pizza and they go, "Let's have a Tubular pizza. Let's take some of the elements of the beer and combine that into a pizza, and here's the pairing and we're bringing our audiences together into something that's unique, something that is maybe if we didn't have this collaboration, maybe it wouldn't have existed."

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Existed, yes. That's such a good point, Ben. Another one that just popped in my head on similar lines, I think it was Lone Pine Brewing did something with The Holy Donut. There's this doughnut style stout, things like that, that yes, it wouldn't necessarily have existed otherwise, but it's very fun how the different signs are coming.

Ben Smith:

And I'll just add too is, again from Curtis and I, maybe a little more northern persuasion here, on the state of Maine, but I know from us is, we get a lot of our pull from Atlantic Canada. We're getting a lot of our neighbors to the North that would... Routinely, they would be coming down for shopping, food, but also our concert scene that continues to build and grow. It's now becoming a, "Here's Bar Harbor, let's go camping, let's go do the hiking, let's experience Bar Harbor." Even taking the cat back and forth, but then they go to a concert, they experience the food scene.

I can see where, even in the pandemic, where now the restrictions are easing between the international lines here a little bit, is being able to infuse this, I'm interested to see how that grows. Because we've been growing, as you said, it's kind of this cocoon state, where people are coming out, just from a drive to Maine, because that has been the destination as a drivable location, but what happens now that people have that taste of it and how it grows may be a little more national. I'm interested to see. Do you have thoughts on that?

Alexis Dirkmaat:

I agree. Yeah. I love that take. I think definitely the pull from, yes, our neighbors to the North, to your point there. But also, even broader than that, I think Maine is just very much on the map globally. I think it's a spot that folks really want to come check out. And so as we see more and more of that influence, and again folks moving here from away, folks continuing to visit here that maybe have never had the opportunity to do so before, that's going to bring a whole new lens of creativity and creators, I think, to Maine.

Ben Smith:

I got to ask a bonus question.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Okay, yeah.

Ben Smith:

This has been our question to our travel expert. Here you are, The Maine Foodies. Obviously you don't just stay in Maine. When you go away, how are you building your foodie experience when you go outside the state? What are you looking for? How do you build it? Again, I know what you're looking for here now, but when you go somewhere else, how do you do that?

Alexis Dirkmaat:

I love that question, because I think we spend a lot of time thinking about that. But I think one of the things that we are always looking for in a travel experience is to try to really experience that place as a local. Whatever we can do, from a day trip or a site seeing experience, but also when it gets down to the food, I know when we're planning our own trips, we honestly look for accounts that are similar to ours, that are big in that city or that state, and we'll actually reach out to them. And like we were saying, that two-way dialogue is so powerful. "Tell me some of your favorites. I'm coming. I've been looking at your page. What about here or here?" And that's been a great way to really help to fine tune, I think, our own itineraries outside of the state.

Erik Dirkmaat:

And then just like in Maine, when we go away, we're looking for these experiences that we can come back and talk to our family and our friends about. Again, a lot of commonalities and it gives you perspective and makes you appreciate, both where you live, but then also you're bringing back new ideas. I think that's also why it's so important to travel, is it just gives you perspective and it gives you a point of view.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. We just went to Quebec City the other weekend for the first time, and when we were thinking about we wanted to do there, we really wanted an experience. And so we ended up going to a Nordic spa, because that felt very much niche to that area. We had a wonderful time, but looking back on the trip, we both said the most memorable meal, hands down, was that farm-to-table lunch with a glass of wine we had, looking out over the spa and the river right there. I think it was that whole experience that brought it together for us.

Curtis Worcester:

That's awesome. That's awesome. We're near the end or approaching the end of our conversation. We have one final question for you guys. Obviously, it goes back to our roots as a show. We're the Retirement Success in Maine podcast, so we got to bring retirement into the conversation. I want to ask, how are you guys going to find that personal retirement success when we get to that point?

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, another great question. It's something we're still exploring.

Curtis Worcester:

Sure.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

We hope we have a few more years [inaudible 00:42:37].

Erik Dirkmaat:

No, but I think it's about being intentional and doing what we love and keeping that front and center. Obviously, we're still working and working very hard, and we schedule out our days and lives, but it's taking those moments to have fun along the journey. I think The Maine Foodies helps us do that and I think it's just, again, that perspective. Like I said before, when you leave, it's just having that perspective that it's a long game. We're in it and we're not running towards retirement, but we do want to get there one day.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yeah, and I think one of the things Erik and I talk a lot about too, I think this might be more generational, but I know when we look to our parents, there was this point in time that they were working towards. And then at this point, I'm finally going to get to retirement and then I've got this bucket list of things that I'm going to do then. I think both of our parents are doing a decent job with that, but I think for us, we've wanted to adopt a mindset that's experiencing things along the journey of life. It's not so much creating this bucket list that we can only do at that point, but we want to be able to only amplify those experiences once we get there.

Curtis Worcester:

I love that.

Ben Smith:

You bring up a really important theme, and I commend you both for doing this is, our conversation with, I think a couple episodes ago with Michelle Dickinson, was this concept and she brought this up. The point of what you're saying about your parents is that generations right now in retirement or before, it was a binge of work to a binge of play. That was the theme of, I need to sacrifice today to get to that point and then I give myself permission to do this. Is that the generations today are saying, "Why does life have to be binary? Why can't we experience both these things?" Which I get from who you are, what you're doing, the fun you're having. And I know, and I will say, you guys are putting a ton of work into this, right? It's not just you show up and all of a sudden you take a camera out and you just take a photo and you're done.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Well, you guys know from the podcast, there's a lot of [inaudible 00:44:34]-

Ben Smith:

It's a of work. It's a lot of work. You've got to love this. You're getting passionate about the experience and looking forward to it, planning it and doing something together, and this is something that is creating happiness for us. I think from a retirement perspective, it's not just a retirement conversation, it's a life conversation. I think that's something where you don't have to be 62 and retiring to do this, that you could do this at 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 150 hopefully.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Hopefully.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Yeah, and it's about identifying what brings you joy and who fills you up. Who do you want to be sharing this with and how do you want to be doing it? And then go attack it, go execute, go have some fun along the way.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Yeah, and I love what you were saying about less binary and just more along that journey. I think it's that old adage, everyone's like, "Find something you're passionate about and it'll be so much easier." But we're so passionate about food experiences and we have so much fun with it, and so it's something that we hope is in our lives for forever.

Ben Smith:

And again, for us, for Curtis and I, this is something where we're very privileged and able to have these conversations of, "Let's explore life," and it is in a lens of aging and retirement, but to do things of, look, there's lessons we can learn from everybody here, and there's things that we can all take away, regardless of age. Whether you're 90 or 10, we should be able to take these things. Thank you so much to both of you for coming on and sharing this today, because first of all, I think we all take for granted the great state we live in and the beautiful experiences that we have available to us.

I think we all get stuck in a rut of, "Hey, I always go to this diner or I go to that place, I go to that thing." And we just need maybe to get... We need to breakout a little bit. Hopefully, the goal of today's show for our audience is we're giving you permission right now. You can take some notes and you can go "Hey doughnut, we can go lobster roll, we can go fine dining, whatever." Take something out of this and go do it, and then while you're at it, again, either Instagram or TikTok, follow at The Maine Foodies.

Curtis Worcester:

That's right.

Ben Smith:

Give these lovely guys a follow, and thank you both. Appreciate it.

Alexis Dirkmaat:

Thank you for having us. This has been so much fun.

Ben Smith:

Take care.

Erik Dirkmaat:

Really appreciate it.

Ben Smith:

I got to just point out real quick how lucky we are that we just spent an hour talking about food in Maine.

Curtis Worcester:

I know. I know.

Ben Smith:

And all the best food and drink in Maine. And again, we're recording on a Friday, so that just is even double layered on top of it.

Curtis Worcester:

We got to wrap this up, Ben, because I'm going to get some food after this. We talked about those burgers downtown.

Ben Smith:

Yes. Yeah. Again, really, really a pleasure to have Alexis and Erik Dirkmaat on. Again, you can see why, as we talked about their just reach is exploding, because the people just being able to say, "Hey, I didn't know that this was there." Then they share it with their friends or they tag their friends in it. "You got to check out this ooey, gooey doughnut, grilled cheese, melty thing into tomato bisque." What's cool is it just takes these very, very unique experiences that you almost have to fall on and tumble into and be able to go, "Hey, these are available and you can go to this restaurant yourself and go try things." I think that's so cool, because us in the state of Maine, it feels like we just get in the rhythm of, "Okay, on Friday night we go to this place, this place or this place." And it's my rotation and we order the similar foods at the same places and a lot of us have lived-

Curtis Worcester:

Say hi to the same people.

Ben Smith:

Exactly. And we lived here our whole lives, but we have such a really building food scene here that is amazing, and there's some really great experiences and we don't have to travel and get on an airplane to go do. We can do it right here. That was really what we wanted you, as our audience, to get out of it today was, hey, there's some really great things and here's Alexis and Erik sampling it all for you and highlighting the best.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah. Yeah. And I thought it was really cool. Real quick, when Erik was talking about how this journey started for them, they were just essentially doing a journal or video diary of their own experience. Then I know we got into the conversation more about how just people in general connect over food and that's where it grew to, but they didn't even start out with this mission or goal, per se. They just wanted to remember or record, for their own purposes, where they're going and what they're enjoying. It's just really cool to see how it evolved.

Ben Smith:

And I will just say, we fell in love with both of them when they started talking about how they spreadsheeted their whole experience. That was the moment right there that we-

Curtis Worcester:

I know. I know. We're good.

Ben Smith:

We said, "All right, you guys are our people." We're a block step-

Curtis Worcester:

Big data folk around here.

Ben Smith:

Yes. Did you do a pivot table when you did this?

Curtis Worcester:

We have grass going. What do we got? What do we got?

Ben Smith:

Yes. Bar charts. Had to be a pie table, right? 'Cause it's food.

Curtis Worcester:

That's true. This is true.

Ben Smith:

But yeah, I thought they did a fantastic job. Again, from us being able to just introduce, there's some more things going on in our state. Here's a couple that are just highlighting things in our state, and I think that's something that we don't do very well as a group, is we don't talk about the things we're doing really well. And when we had the opportunity to do that, we wanted to be able to bring that to you as well.

Curtis Worcester:

Absolutely.

Ben Smith:

I know from a food piece here, and I didn't offer it, but I know we want to probably have them back in maybe another year or so and get an update.

Curtis Worcester:

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Ben Smith:

Curtis, where can people go? I know we mentioned a little bit in the open. Where can people go to find some more resources of today's show?

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, absolutely. Like we do with all our episodes, we're going to have a website blog page for this show. That url, it's blog.guidancepointllc.com/78. We're at episode 78. Again, on there, you'll find not only links to our show, our videos, but you also will have links in there for The Maine Foodies themselves. Their website and blog, we'll have their TikTok, their Instagram page. Feel free to dive in. Again, we opened the show with telling you go to go subscribe to all their stuff and we're going to end it that way too. Again, go check them out. Hopefully you enjoyed having them on the show. I know we did. And again, thank you all so much again for your continued listenership and we look forward to the rest of our conversations.