Transcript:

Ben Smith:

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Retirement Success in Main Podcast. My name is Ben Smith and allow me to introduce the whale watch to my whitewater rafting, Curtis Worcester.

Ben Smith:

How are you doing today, Curtis?

Curtis Worcester:

All right. I'm doing well, Ben. I'm doing well. I didn't know where you were going with the whale watch, but that was good. That's a good one.

Ben Smith:

Yeah. Well, it is Maine. It's summer. People doing stuff outside is [inaudible 00:00:49].

Curtis Worcester:

That's right.

Ben Smith:

I was just flying back from DC and the gentleman was like, "I'm going on a whale watch." It's like, "I hope you brought your winter jacket because, man, is it cold out on that water looking for whales."

Curtis Worcester:

That's right.

Ben Smith:

Well, I know summer... And one of the things we've been talking... We've been doing lots of topics here on our show recently. And one thing that we kind of run into with our clients a bit is, whether it be a client gets divorced, maybe they've lost their spouse and they're a widow, but then they find another partner. And the question is, how do I merge all the generations of my family over to somebody else's generations? And the term is called blending families.

Curtis Worcester:

That's right.

Ben Smith:

That was the topic that we were seeing here recently. So a blended family, let's define that, is one where the parents have children from previous relationships, but all the members come together as one unit. So again, I just described a client having that situation, but what are the statistics saying? Roughly 17% of people remarry after divorce or death of their first spouse, according to Census Bureau. And while the rate of remarriage has dropped over time for most age groups, it's actually ballooned among the 55 and older group, up to 57% in 2013. I know sometimes these census is a little bit dated, but that's compared to 42%, 1960. So adults who remarried later in life are more likely to bring significant assets to their new union in the form of retirement savings, brokerage accounts, life insurance policy, and real estates, right?

Ben Smith:

This is a group where they're typically been saving their whole life and now you have a kind of this level of wealth that can come into play as well. So, as blended families become increasingly common, the definition of blended family is also changing. So understanding the basics of a blended family can be essential for ensuring your family can embrace its strengths and also work through its differences.

Ben Smith:

Later age blended families may experience difficulty in terms of marital support, medical decisions, and other complex issues such as conflicting roles of family members when children are different ages, such as when an older child of one parent becomes the eldest and the younger children of the other family must readjust to a new position. Conflicting family values and responsibilities of each family member with regard to appropriate behavior expectations and other responsibilities. Social etiquette difficulties between the non-involved biological parent and the new step parent, and which one is acting as which type of role model? That's a tough one. Stress on the biological parents when balancing the needs of their children and the new partner, particularly where values may conflict. And also, communication issues regarding how to integrate the family. So many blended families successfully overcome these difficulties have become strong supportive family units for each member. But how? So that's the topic of today's show

Curtis Worcester:

That's right. And Ben... And I know our listeners are probably tired of hearing me say this, but we are not the experts on every topic we talk about. So naturally, we have to reach out and find an expert here. So our guest today offers family and relationship coaching services as the founder of Talk To Nicole. Specializing in blended family dynamics, Talk To Nicole helps clients to achieve the life they want by building strong relationships and planning for a brighter future. She is the author of multiple books, including Blended to Perfection, Dating Made Simple For Women, and the international bestsellers, Moms Who BossUp Post Pandemic and Cracking the Rich Code, volume 7.

Curtis Worcester:

Our guest today also holds a bachelor in business administration from Strayer University, a master's degree in human services, human resource management from Lincoln University of Pennsylvania. And she is currently in the process of earning her doctoral degree from Breyer State. So as a lifelong learner dedicated to continued professional and personal growth, she strives to continue innovating and developing new success strategies for herself and her clients, eager to see the better tomorrow they will build together. So at this time, please welcome Nicole Odom-Hardnett to the Retirement Success in Maine Podcast.

Curtis Worcester:

Nicole, thank you so much for coming on our show today.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Thank you, gentlemen. It's a pleasure to be here. That was a wonderful introduction, I really appreciate that.

Ben Smith:

Well, Nicole, as Curtis said, we're not really the experts in lots of things.

Curtis Worcester:

That's right.

Ben Smith:

We're lifelong learners ourselves. And I think we care so much about our clients that we want to help them wherever we can. So thinking this idea, this concept of blending families is just not something where we've gone through. And we want to kind of learn from the master out here of what to know, what pitfalls to avoid.

Curtis Worcester:

That's right.

Ben Smith:

And every time I think of blending families, I just can think of the blender and impressing the puree button, I guess, is what I'm... Which I can't imagine is a great strategy of just hitting puree and getting to where you need to go.

Ben Smith:

So Nicole, I want to dig in because the first thing we want to do is get to know you a little bit here, is we want to get to know you and your expertise. So I'd love to... And I was reading that you were born into a career military family in Fort Lee, Virginia.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Yes.

Ben Smith:

And that your childhood was spent in Europe as well as the U.S.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Yes.

Ben Smith:

My question is, how did your childhood experience influence your path towards business ownership today?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

So, business ownership came in not overseas at all. It came in because I lived for a period of time with my great aunt and uncle. And my uncle was a somewhat of a businessman, meaning he sold cigarettes and things out of the house, and anything else that he could sell out of the home. That was the business experience that I received. I helped him by collecting the money and putting the money away. So that was the only business experience that I saw firsthand was that when I was probably about between five and seven years old. Other than that, my mom, she worked as a civilian for the government. And my dad, he was in the army.

Ben Smith:

Very cool.

Curtis Worcester:

All right.

Curtis Worcester:

I love hearing the... That first question, right? All of our shows, we have obviously these topics, but I think one of my favorites is learning about our guests in their childhood and upbringing. But I want to keep going here and talk about blended families, but I want to talk about your own blended family for a minute. So what was your path towards your current spouse? And how did the blending of your families kind of influence your need to counsel others on that experience?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

So my husband, he had five children coming into our marriage. And I had two. So he has three girls and two boys. And they ranged from age, when we got together, from... It was 13 to very early 20s. And then when my kids were seven to... I think the oldest was 14. I have two boys. So when we got together, we just put them all together.

Ben Smith:

In terms of how did that go when you said... Obviously, putting them together, and you obviously were seeing, "Hey, we're having some difficulties in getting all these personalities to blend, and match, and figure out their roles." And your eldest is now one of the youngest of the brew, right?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

So the kids in their personalities, they mesh pretty well. As a matter of fact, my oldest son and now my middle daughter, they got along extremely well because they had some of the same... Even though we didn't live too much in the same area, but at some point we were in the same area. So they had the same friends.

Ben Smith:

Gotcha.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

So they got along well.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

My youngest daughter and the youngest son, even though they're three years apart, they clicked very well. So we didn't have an issue with the children. That wasn't our issue at all. So the personalities with the kids were like, "Ooh, this is perfect."

Ben Smith:

That, I like.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

That part went really smooth. Everyone communicated. They watched movies together. We went on family vacations. All of that was fine. Where the issues came in was the adults didn't play nice together. That was our issue, and which is typical with a lot of my clients.

Ben Smith:

Okay, got it.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

I see the kid issue quite a bit, but the adult issue is a whole another beast.

Ben Smith:

So can you talk about that then? What were you experiencing in that blending of your families? What were the adult issues that you were seeing that you're then creating this, "Hey, I'm experiencing these issues and trying to work through them with all the other adults in our relationship, and biological parents, and step parents, and trying to get those roles aligned?" How did that influence then what you were maybe counseling other people to do in today's work?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

The adult issues that took place in my relationship and some others that I deal with is that you have either [inaudible 00:11:04], you have one person that is... They know the relationship is over, but they have some sort of baggage. Either they're missing someone taking care of them, meaning their former spouse taking care of them. Or some jealousy like, "This person has my life now." Or whatever else. And instead of them feeling all of this anger, or jealousy, or hatred into their therapist, they're giving this energy and all these emotions to their child. And either it's multiple children, and one of the children or the child feeds into it. And they feel sorry for mommy. And them feeling sorry for mommy, they take mommy's side. And then that pushes daddy away. And then that causes friction between daddy and child now, and that creates drama inside of the household with new wife, or other spouse, or whomever.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

And then that's when some turmoil comes around and it could spill over into other children. And that's when you get this whole separation or divide. And sometimes it can go into other children and then you have to clean that up. But that's when therapy kind of can help. Sometimes it doesn't. Things can get worse before they get better. But in my situation, things got a little worse before they got better. But it takes a lot of communication with the new couple. It takes a lot of patience. And when I say a lot, meaning years. It's not an overnight fix. So if you're thinking something's going to happen in three to six months, probably not. In my case, it took more along the lines of a year, year and a half before this whole situation kind of resolved.

Ben Smith:

And I know we're going to dig into a little bit more specifics area, Nicole, with you today.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Sure.

Ben Smith:

And I know we want to dig into not only identifying the problem, but then let's talk about possible solutions and what resources we might need to help us find resolutions.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Sure.

Ben Smith:

We're going to go into that, but I want to ask another question about you because I know you have a couple of businesses, right?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Mm-hmm.

Ben Smith:

One is Focus Point Behavioral Health, which you're in the process of franchising.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Correct.

Ben Smith:

And you also bridge community and organizational needs for behavioral health agencies, ensuring exceptional quality service. And you have Talk To Nicole. How have you juggled managing both these business together? Because I could see where you have kind of the personal side, but also the behavioral health franchising that you're doing. How do you juggle those both?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Well, honestly, they kind of go hand in hand, even though I don't commingle the two. So Focus Point Behavioral Health, I have an extraordinary staff. So I'm on calls quite often. As a matter of fact, I just had a call with my clinical director a few minutes ago before I came on to go over our meeting that we're going to have after I get off this call today. So I have my clinical meeting later on today and we'll go over everything that's going on for the week and last week. And so we'll talk about all of that. So I'm very involved with what's going on even though I'm not on the ground there because my business is in Maryland and I reside in Texas, which is where I am right now. So I know exactly what's going on because I speak to my clinical director. Sometimes it can be three times a day, depending on what's going on. Sometimes it may not be at all during the day. But we're in contact all the time.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Now with the Talk To Nicole, I'm on podcast be three, four times a week. It may not be at all during the week. But then I talk to a client, it could be one or two. It all depends on my schedule. So I try to balance out my schedule between Focus Point, Talk To Nicole, family, but also giving me some me time also.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah. So it certainly sounds like you're keeping yourself busy there with the two organizations. And both are wonderful things that you're doing. I want to dig in here a little more into now kind of the core topic, which is obviously blended families. So in our intro, we talked about briefly what a blended family is. Can you just take a minute and give us right... You're the expert here, so can you just define for us what a blended family is, and then maybe what a blended family isn't as well? I think there's two sides to that definition,

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

In Ben's definition, he hit it right on the head. When someone from a previous... And it doesn't necessarily even have to be a marriage. A previous relationship, has a child. They're no longer in that relationship and they go into a new relationship. And now you've brought that child with you. And now the person that you're going into the new relationship with, they don't necessarily have to have a child. So now you are still blended.

Curtis Worcester:

Sure. Yeah.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

But typically, you look for someone to have a child that is also been separated from, I guess, their biological parent. And now they're bringing over a child to a new relationship. Then you have two kids from different parents and they're all together, so that's typically blended or bonus family living.

Curtis Worcester:

Gotcha, gotcha.

Ben Smith:

So Nicole, episode 27, so way back in our library... We're on episode, I think, 69 today... So we talked to a communication leadership expert, AmyK Hutchens, about mastering communication to get what we want in retirement. So question we have for you is, what are some communication tips you would give couples with blended families on finding a middle ground on how they can create norms in their relationship. What are some things that we can talk about to say, "Hey, how do we..." Again, especially where there's arguments or conflict, how can we work to address and then find resolution using some communication tips?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

How do we create norms with communication?

Ben Smith:

So I guess, the question is how do I find middle ground in conflicts of blended families? What are some ways that we can talk through them, or how do I address them? Because I know just even me, sometimes it feels awkward to bring something up. Even if it's conflict maybe between me and my spouse, if I'm seeing like, hey, there's an issue with maybe a biological parent or an old relationship, and I need to say something to them because there's something hurting our blended families.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Oh, gotcha.

Ben Smith:

What are some things or situations that we see and how can we communicate through them?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Are you talking about in reference to the other child, like my husband's children or...

Ben Smith:

Yeah, let me give you example. So, say if-

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

I just want to make sure I'm understanding because I'm all about honesty. I'm blunt, but not. I'm direct, but not. I'm thinking I understand what you're talking about, but I just want to make sure.

Ben Smith:

Yeah. I guess, that's the thing is like, so when there's conflict and issues, what are the best ways to address them? So I guess, what you're saying is, "Hey, if I'm having an issue with-

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

His children.

Ben Smith:

Yeah... with, say, these are not my children. Obviously, they are now in the family, but they're not my biological children. What are some ways or what are some thought processes we can have about communicating these issues to get through though?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Oh, you have to be direct. You have to talk about the elephant in the room, no matter what you. Because if not, you're going to hold it in and it's going to hurt the relationship because you're holding it in. In my relationship, we had to talk about all the good, the bad, and ugly. When we started living together, there are going... Well, anyone, when you start living together in a blended family, there are going to be things that you are not going to like about your spouse's kids, because you didn't raise them. Someone else did. Point blank. Period. I never lived with girls. I don't have sisters. He had three girls. I have to live with three girls. I don't know what that's like. I have brothers. So I'm a girly girl, but not. But I was raised by older women and they taught me things that girls should do and what girls should not do.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

In my situation, he raised his daughters. So they were raised by man. So they did not know things that I knew growing up as a young girl. So I saw things that I'm like, "They should know this." But no, they don't because they had a mom there, but mom didn't show what I thought she should have shown. But that's not their fault. So you have to talk about those things. For my kids, their dads were there. My ex-husband was there, but not. In our communication, while we were dating. I said, "I want someone that is going to help me raise my boys into men." That was our dialogue. His, on the other end, was the same. He wanted someone to help him raise his girls and two women. That was our communication. So with that, knowing that in our relationship going in, we had to own up to that.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

And so we talked in the bed at night. That was our pillow talk, "Well, your girls are doing this." "Well, your boys are doing that." "Okay, what are you going to do about it?" So we had to have those honest conversations. Things were ticking me off. Things were ticking him off. I was yelling at my boys. Okay, well, you can't yell at them because it's just going in one ear and out the other. This is what you need to do. You leave the TV on the wall, but you take away the cord. You unplug it. That's the punishment. That's how they learn. That's the communication.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah. No, I like that. And I think the core, and it's what you led with, is just talking about that elephant in the room and getting it out there. And then you work to, whether it's in different ways of communicating, but you work towards that solution. So I think that was a really good answer.

Curtis Worcester:

And it kind of teed up my next question for you. So my question's going to ask specifically about older age couples and their maybe more adult children, but I think it's something you can probably pull from your experience doing it as well. So I guess, the question is, so we have an older age couple. They're now in a relationship, whether it's an engagement, marriage. They're deciding to continue their lives together. They each have adult children, maybe grandkids are in the picture. So, what would you say to someone who wants to start communicating that to those adult children and grandkids that, "Hey, our families are now merging. We're starting this new life as a blended family." Can you just talk about how that communication can go, and what you've seen work, and what doesn't work?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

I've only had one situation like this and the only reason why it was an issue for the family is because the woman chose a younger man. And that was the only reason why it was an issue. And so it became an issue because the individuals did not take the younger man seriously. They kind of walked all over them. Some of the individuals understood that the woman wanted companionship and they just understood the relationship. And she loved the person just like he was her age. I think it was like a 15 year difference in age. But the problem is that the gentleman was somewhat close to the age of the oldest child, or something like that.

Curtis Worcester:

Gotcha. Yeah.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

That's the only experience that I've had with the older age individuals.

Curtis Worcester:

I guess, even so outside of just the older age couples there, so even in your own experience, I know you mentioned a couple of your children had mutual friends and stuff, so it went smoothly. But just that conversation, how does that go of like, "Hey, mom and so and so are moving in together." Or, "We're getting married and you're going to have new siblings." Is there a golden ticket way to go about that? Or is it just kind of a you see, you... Obviously, I'm sure it depends on the children and their personalities, but what can you share there?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

It does depend a lot on their personalities. I don't think it should be pushed on the kids. The way we did it was we had dinner. And we had dinner together, then we went bowling. We did some other activities. I think he had a housewarming at his new place. And then the kids' friends came over. And I think I was invited to one of the kids' fashion shows. So we had events and different things together before we moved in together. We didn't just, "Ah, we're moving in together." It wasn't one of those things. So we had several events and different times together, social gatherings and things of that nature where the kids were involved, their friends were involved. It was a whole lot of stuff going on prior to us moving in together. And also, prior to us saying that we were dating a boyfriend and girlfriend, or even getting married. So, it was just a lot beforehand.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

And I let my boys kind of know what was going on almost at every phase. Even before I was thinking about us moving in together, I posed that idea. I am a big communicator because I just wanted to know how they would feel about that. Now, on his end, he didn't do that so much. And he was wishing that he had of, even though with the youngest two of the girls, it wasn't much of a problem. They were easy to go along with. The oldest one was the one that was more on the side of her mom, which was understood.

Curtis Worcester:

Sure.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

But I think the communication with the kids, because they're involved... Their lives change with this whole process. They're involved with this whole process. They should know. It's not like you're talking to them like an adult, but they should know, "Hey, this might happen. How are you feeling?"

Ben Smith:

So Nicole, I think you answered that really well. Actually, that was a whole chain of questions, which you kind of nailed really well. So I want to ask then the opposite side here. So you talked about, "Hey, here's things that we did." And I think it really started building momentum of getting positive relationships in the family and allowing each of them to discover the relationship with the new members and new roles and responsibilities. What are some things you've seen in your practice of things not to do? What are some situations that, "Hey, we've blended our families and we've probably done this in not the best way?" So what you've seen for examples of things that people maybe should think twice about when putting their families into introductory situations?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Oh my gosh. Okay, you're dating someone. No, the kids don't know that you're even dating or they may have met the person one time. And then all of a sudden you move in, the kids come over. And you're like, "Oh, this is such and such." And now you're moving in with miss such and such, and you're expected to get along. And then miss such's kids come and now you're all going out to dinner or to lunch, and nobody says anything. And then you're ticked off because no one's talking and no one's getting along. And you're wondering what's going on and why? But you never introduced anyone. Or maybe they've met one time and you come back the second time and you are like, "Okay, well, they met before." And you're like they've seen each other before. They should know each other by now. Everything should be okay. No, they don't know each other. They don't know anything about each other.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

And it is like it doesn't work like that. People don't connect that way. You've never said anything about it other than you're dating someone and now they live with this person. And they may know that they have one or two kids. And so it's not fair. It's not reasonable to think that it's going to be a big kumbaya already. So, I've had that happen and that doesn't work. And then-

Ben Smith:

So-

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Ben Smith:

Yeah. It's just kind of what I'm hearing you say, Nicole, is it sounds like communicating where we are in the process throughout to the stakeholders, whether it be adult kids, because I could see where even adult kids that, "Hey, I have an adult child", even though they're not in the house anymore, they want to kind of reaffirm their role in the family. And that if they're not being checked in with and even communicated on, "Hey, here's what's happening in my life. And here's how it might impact you", you could also see where noses might get at a joint there from they just don't feel heard. They don't feel respected or valued in the family. And that happens a lot. So, the non-communicating part is, hey, all of a sudden people then go, "It feels to me we went from zero to 60 and all of a sudden I didn't even get heard. I didn't get respected. I didn't get valued. I just got thrown into this situation. I went puree on the blender on me and I have to go along for the ride."

Ben Smith:

So my question then back is so say your situation where you just said is, "Hey, we went to dinner. I didn't even tell anybody that we're blending. I just said, 'Hey, we met and it's all good. And we're moving in. Surprise.'" So I could see where all of a sudden that might create lots of animosity and people getting upset. So let's say we are in that situation. We have people that are not in a good place. And I'm sure that's the point where, Nicole, maybe they come talk to you in your practice is say, "Hey, I've maybe made some mistakes here, and people are really upset. And I'm concerned about the path we're on for the blending of our family." How do we get people back on track after maybe a bad introduction or a bad start?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Right. That's where the cleanup comes in because everyone is angry pretty much or they're feeling however they're feeling. And so we have to kind of peel back the layers and see what's going on? What happened? So then I have to take it from, "Okay, how did this happen? Where do we start? How did we get here? "So we peel everything back and start off from square one. And take baby steps and try to fix it, whatever that looks like for them.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah. No, that makes sense.

Curtis Worcester:

So, continuing on this theme of, maybe things not going well or experiencing difficulty, so an area we've heard from some clients where they've experienced difficulty blending their families, it's something Ben touched on in the intro, right? It's these conflicting family values or not knowing the roles of each family member with regards to responsibilities, appropriate behavior. The list could go on there. An example there is, maybe in my family, we joke with each other a lot. They may be jokes that someone else may think is hurtful. Right?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Mm-hmm.

Curtis Worcester:

And you're sitting at that dinner table for the first time, and for me as a child, it's comfortable to crack a joke about Billy's shoes, or whatever it is. And that may be just completely not appropriate to Billy and his family that's now become one family. So what are some tips and tricks that you could share to work through issues like this?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

I think that's where the parents come into play. If the parents don't have really good communication and they don't know their children, they can't explain to the new parents and their new children, each other's kids or the situations when they're hopefully all sitting down at dinner. To say, "Hey, Sharon is just joking. This is how she communicates. This is how she breaks the ice." Or, "This is how she whatever." Because you have to know your kids. Like both of my boys have ADHD, so they do very outlandish thing sometimes. Sometimes they're just off in their own world. My husband has ADHD. So, our house was crazy. Now, we have kids that would do... They would leave their keys in the door. So I was forever checking behind everyone to see what was going on to make sure lights were turned out at night, to make sure this or whatever, whatever.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

It's getting to learn everyone's personality because none of them are going to be the same. You have some that talk more than others. You have some that eat more than others. You have some that don't like this type of food, that like that type of food. It's a big deal, when you are blending families, getting to know the likes, the dislikes, the this, that, the whatever of every person, all their nuances in this new situation that you're in. And it's not an overnight process because as their hormones change, especially if they come in young, as their hormones change, they turn into different people. And if you come in when they're like 12, they're like there. But then they're not there. They're somebody else in another six months. Then in another six months, they turn into someone else. So it's going through that process with them, it can be very traumatic for some people.

Ben Smith:

Sure. And I know, Nicole, one thing that we've talked about in just as we were doing introductions before, was you have an added wrinkle to your own blended family around potentially transitioning a family business. So we had a conversation on episode four of our show where we had a third generation owner of a family business in the state of Maine, Susan Ware Page, who's talking about the difficulties about finding the right person in the next generation to carry on. Also, and it was a good idea, but then maybe they're not the right person. And it was... Susan's as a third generation... I think she's only one of 3% of businesses that have actually made it to the third generation. So she had a lot of wealth of information there.

Ben Smith:

So I want to talk to you about that, but then added is the blended family perspective, because here you have maybe a potential another generation of kids that can step in and there might be unique considerations. So what are some things that are maybe unique to that situation around business transitions there that you can share with us?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

So we have seven, so Focus Point Solutions, or Focus Point Behavioral Health, we're looking for someone to carry on the torch. And I thought that we had someone, but working with that child for a little while like, "No, not quite. He doesn't quite have the work ethic." So we're looking at another one and we're like, "I don't know if this one has it or not." So we're trying to pull from these seven to find one of them that can carry this torch on. And maybe we have to wait for the grand baby... Excuse me... to carry it on. So we're looking for someone that can carry this business on. So we don't have to look outside somewhere. And we have enough Indians in this camp. Somebody should be able to carry this on, so it just doesn't die in the midst of everything. But so far I have a niece that we have put in this succession plan to hold it down, God forbid anything happens to me or my husband for right now. But we were hoping that it would be one of the kids.

Ben Smith:

And that's something that Susan was kind of saying in our conversation was, "Hey, it's just sometimes it's like when they're 12, how do you really know if they're going to be the right personality or not versus, hey, 18, as you said about people change completely who they are, what they want to be, what they want to do?" And Susan herself went to go work for Exxon Mobil for a few years before she went to... Because she says, "I'm going to go work for big business and I want to see how they do things. And I don't really want to be in the local business." Until her dad said, "Susan, I think it's time for you to come back." And it took her to go away and see what the rest of the world was like before she could eventually come back to even know what she's saying yes to.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Right.

Ben Smith:

And I think that's something as interesting as you're describing that, Nicole, is it just I think we might be sometimes need a little world experience. Sometimes we need to get kicked in the shin a little bit to realize what work ethic really is and what it isn't. And I think those are just maturation lessons that we kind of all have to go through. And it's just tough, because I think as that generation waiting for it and being patient, is waiting for it. Am I patient? And then all of a sudden it doesn't turn into anything and then I have to be left with less options. Those are some unique things. And again, from a blending of families, I'm sure that's even more difficult. So appreciate you sharing that with us.

Curtis Worcester:

So I want to keep going, I think another piece, or I think an important piece of this blended family conversation is... I know Ben teased it in the intro again... is these assets, right? And I think a big asset for everyone is real estate. So I know specifically here in the state of Maine, it feels like everyone has their house. They have their camp. Maybe they have a camper too. We have all these memories kind of built around whether it's the childhood home or it's the camp that you always used to go to in the summer. So when you're blending in families, then I think there's a decision for the new spouses, which house are we going to live in? Do we get a new house? Do we sell your house? Do we sell my house? Do we get rid of the camp? The kids love the camp. The grandkids love the camp. So there's just so much around real estate here.

Curtis Worcester:

And then you could even go another element in terms of legality. And if you're from different states, can I still own a home in this state if I don't live here six months? Are there different tax rules? There's all kinds going on around real estate. So I guess, can you just share how you've experienced? Or if you've helped counsel people through that process of how do you decide where to live? And then again, back to this, I think the keyword today is communication, right? How do you then communicate to the kids or the grandkids that their childhood bedroom or their favorite summer vacation spot isn't going to be in the family anymore? Can you just give us what you got there for information or tips and experiences?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Well, when the client asked me about a home, I wouldn't expect anyone to do what I wouldn't do. My husband, he owned a home that he lived in with his ex-wife when we got together. And he asked me to come live in that home with him when we got together. And I told him, "Oh, no way, I'm not doing that." Because what I could see is her coming to the house and knocking on the door, and acting as if she still resided in the house. And taking over and making rules and things. And I'm not going to have that. I'm a grown woman. I've always been independent. And when women ask me those type of things, "Would I..." They asked me the question, "Would you?" I was saying, "I didn't." I'd give them my honest answer.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

If they asked me, "Would you or did you move into your own... the home with a separate house or a new home together?" If you can, so you're on neutral turf, I would definitely advise that if you can do that financially. Whether you're renting or you're owning, I would say that. So there, you're on neutral ground. That is not his home. That is not your home. It belongs to the both of you. Unless for financial reasons you have to stay in a home that he owns, or you own, or was there before either one of you for financial reasons, then that's what you do. But if it can be avoided, go neutral.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, that makes sense. I think, this is obviously something I've never experienced, but I think even just asking you the question and hearing myself say it out loud, I think that makes sense. And I think it helps emphasize too, you are all a new family now. And you have your own places, your own new memories. And so, no, I appreciate you sharing that with us, because I think that's something that I know in the state of Maine, it comes up a lot because it's very common to have multiple homes.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Right.

Curtis Worcester:

And then just the humanity of memories and that's just, I think, it could lead to difficult situations. But I-

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

it does lead to a lot of difficult situations, especially when you have so many of those jealous spouses. And it's not only women, it's men too that are very territorial.

Curtis Worcester:

Oh, yeah.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

And they were like, "Well, we used to cook in the kitchen together, and we did this in the bedroom together, or this in the shower together." A lot of that always comes up. And they say, "This is still my house." And they don't live there anymore. They may not be paying the mortgage anymore. Or maybe because of their situation, maybe they still are. I don't know. But a lot of that, it still comes up. And then it becomes a problem. And then you may end up moving anyway. But then now you have to take everybody with you.

Ben Smith:

So Nicole, I want to talk to you about... This is a trickier topic... about estate planning. So here I am, I'm a part of a blended family. And so me and my spouse both have different sets of biological children, for example, or grandchildren maybe. So we both worked hard. We've saved. We want to provide for ourselves for the rest of our lives. And if something happens where maybe I pass away, obviously we want to take care of each other. But it is the difficulty of... So Nicole, if we're married and all of a sudden then I pass. My assets might go to your name. But if you then pass next, your estate plans might be so that you are taking care of maybe your biological children and then their biological children as well. But what about my biological children here, right?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Right.

Ben Smith:

So, Curtis and I have seen enough situations in our team where, hey, we got to be very careful and mindful about, hey, here's the assets. And we want them to flow a certain way. Because, Nicole, yes, if I pass away, I want to take care of you and vice versa because we're in this relationship together. But we might have different ideas of how the money should flow or may want to flow after that fact. How have you helped people guide through that? Or how have you thought through that in terms of how do you structured things in your family?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

So we have financial things set up for the kids, like I have policies for all the kids, not just mine, all seven of them. So I have coverage for everyone. He has coverage for everyone. So we have talked about all of the kids as a whole. So it's not his kids, my kids, and what happens. So everyone is covered in our situation no matter what happens to either one of us. That is something that we have definitely talked about. Now, as far as my clients, I don't think I've ever had anyone ask me that, to be honest with you.

Ben Smith:

Because I'd say this kind of... Obviously, Curtis and I are, say, we're setting up something. And I'm going to ask the question about IRAs and 401(k)s, and life insurances you just described, are things that we just don't put into a will. These are things that non probate that whatever my IRA says... So Curtis and I are going through... We have a new relationship with a client. We're getting things open and we open up a new account. All right. Say Sally, or Bob, or Nicole, hey, who do you want to be the beneficiary of your IRA? And so that question comes up right in an account opening, which is just this big estate planning question, especially where we have a blended family and we just see enough of like, "Oh. Oh." And then the couple looks at each other like, "Oh, we haven't really talked about this a little bit. We haven't really thought..."

Ben Smith:

Because it's like it doesn't go through the will. It's going to be, "Hey, Nicole, you pass away, yes it goes to your spouse." Maybe in that situation. But then if maybe your spouse, Nicole, if you then maybe predecease your spouse, then where does it go as contingency? And thinking all that through and having that conversation. So again, we just been in that meeting with enough of our clients and they look at each other and they go, "Haven't really fought through that a little bit."

Ben Smith:

I guess, my question to you is, how do you counsel people? Or maybe as you said, you're not really running that situation, but maybe how would you think through this a little bit, because these are things that they're not just in a will that says, "Hey, assets go from me to spouse to then here." These are direct decisions that have to be made in each of these different situations. So how would you think through that?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

As I said, I don't discuss any of the financial aspects with my clients because they come to me with other pressing issues. Well, I know mine are already intact because of my businesses, and they have to be because of what my husband and I do. His partner is an insurance agent, so we have to have everything in order. And because I am certified through the state as MBE, WMBE, I had to have all of that in order, in order for me to be certified. But my clients have never ever talked to me about any of their financial obligations, or life insurances, or anything like that because they're too worried about just stopping the arguing in their household. But if they have, I would definitely tell them what I have going on and how it would be beneficial to them because I've known so many people who have passed away and don't have anything. And I hate to see those people that are on social media asking for... What is it?... the pages where they ask for donations.

Curtis Worcester:

Like the GoFundMes, and stuff like that.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Yeah, the GoFundMe. And I think it's really sad when people have to do that because they have not pre-planned, because death is inevitable. So yeah, I would definitely let them know that they have to plan for it, for sure.

Ben Smith:

Well, Nicole, we've had a lot of estate planners on our show in previous episodes and we obviously work really closely with a lot of them. So I guess, I'll throw something out there and just love to hear your reaction to it. But we kind of always start with this, it's the goal setting of, "Hey, if we pass, what do we want to have happen? What are the family values?" And it's like, "No, what's important to us is, 'Hey, we know there's these three children that really need a head start and want to get into the business, and that's something that's really important to them. So let's make sure the assets we have, if something happened, that would match to those goals because it's important for us to further them.'" Or, "And here's the other four children, they're really into trade. And we want to make sure that they're able to either further the trade... Welding, plumbing... whatever they're into."

Ben Smith:

So the assets are maybe directly to certain goals of the family and what you want to see accomplished. And then I think the assets then fall in line with it is what we've kind of gotten the advice on over time. So would that be your kind of opinion as well?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Exactly. So my goal for setting everything up was for my kids to not have to worry about where their next meal was coming from, or to set them up to have a really good start in life, or to continue to live their life as if I'm still living. Hopefully, they won't mess over the money that I've left them. They won't go crazy with it and blow it all in once. But I think I have done a good job with what I've set out for them.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah. And I think we'd both agree with that statement.

Curtis Worcester:

So we've reached the end of our show here, Nicole. We do have one final question for you. So obviously, the name of our show is Retirement Success in Maine. I know you mentioned you're in Texas, so we'll just go retirement success for a minute. So how would you define retirement success for yourself? And I know fast forward to looking ahead down the road when you get to retirement, how would you define a successful retirement?

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

To not have to pick up a pen, pencil, or anything and still have money coming in. And I know for a fact that I am going to have some money coming in because I have put things in place where I will have some income coming in. And I guess, back on a beach, on a boat, or hopefully my husband wants a jet.

Curtis Worcester:

All right. All right.

Ben Smith:

All right. I like it.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Yeah. We're making that happen, yeah.

Curtis Worcester:

Sounds great. That sounds like a very successful retirement.

Nicole Odom-Hardnett:

Right.

Ben Smith:

Nicole, thank you so much for coming on our show. I know that our topic about mastering blending families is something where there's obviously some minds there, there's things to be mindful of it. And I think you helped us with a lot of great points, so appreciate you coming on lending your expertise. And we hope to see you again.

Ben Smith:

So thanks to Nicole Odom-Hardnett in how to master blending your family with your spouse's family. And we see that situation often, so we wanted to seek out somebody that had obviously been through it.

Curtis Worcester:

Sure.

Ben Smith:

But then counseling somebody in other kind of couples through it was the goal of today. So I think Nicole did a great job walking us through some of the situations that she had seen and either from our clients, or maybe personally there too. But I know it's something where obviously we're... Look, we're all living longer. And statistically, that one of the couples sometimes may pass away. And there's a lot of life left to live, which is kind of the point of this show.

Curtis Worcester:

That's right. Right.

Ben Smith:

So is to kind of be able to go, hey, if I want to find partnership, if I want to find love again and then do that in a way which obviously leads to another of... I've also built a family, or friend network, or any of those things. And blending those things together is a challenge. So again, I think that was the point today. And I think Nicole highlighted a few points. One was making sure we're communicating early in the process.

Curtis Worcester:

That's right.

Ben Smith:

Obviously, frequently throughout the process as things are changing. Because again, we don't always know where things end up.

Curtis Worcester:

Sure.

Ben Smith:

And sometimes maybe the relationship doesn't work. But as they do work, we all have different ideas and thoughts through it. And I think if we can't resolve them on our own, is that seeking resources like Nicole has created for herself, that Talk To Nicole and some of her businesses there to help talk through the problems and help understand it. So again, I know we talked a little bit on the kid side as part of this. And obviously, for you guys out there, it might be more of the adult children. It might be more grand grandchildren involved into this.

Curtis Worcester:

Sure.

Curtis Worcester:

Or grandkids, yeah.

Ben Smith:

And making sure I think that all that is... I think all of us get a lot of peace and satisfaction from raising our families and creating positive relationships in our families. So, to work on that as is something that is even more of a challenge. And I think Nicole talked us through that too.

Ben Smith:

So I know we have some resources and other things out there on our website. So Curtis, where can people go to find more about how to master blending our families?

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah, exactly. So as our listeners probably know, we do a website for all of our episodes. So this one, all those show notes, the transcript, some more resources, links to Nicole's books I think will be up there. So you can go to blog.guidancepointllc.com\68. So this is episode 68 of our show. Again, you can find some more info about this conversation itself and some of Nicole's resources, how to see her practices and whatnot. But... Yeah.

Ben Smith:

And i know I mentioned in the show today too that I think I said 69 because I was thinking... I was like, "Hey, I think we're getting close to 69."

Curtis Worcester:

We are.

Ben Smith:

It actually is 68. So when you go to the website, and as Curtis said, if you do that \68-

Curtis Worcester:

68, yep.

Ben Smith:

So it is 68. So I just want to make sure I raise that point, if I created some confusion there.

Ben Smith:

We really appreciate tuning into our show. I know some of these situations you might run into or you might not, but always appreciate you tuning in. Hope you've got something out of today's show. And we'll catch you next time.