Transcript:

Ben Smith (00:26):

Welcome everybody to the Retirement Success in Maine podcast. My name is Ben Smith and I'm one of the co-hosts here on the show. Listeners, I hope you are all doing well today. It's fall, NFL is kicking off. The Patriots got the first win of their season, so we're all in a good mood today, but want to hear from you. If you want to be a part of the show, you can always email us at benSmith@guidancepointrs.com. Of course, find us on YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn. You can reach out to us there. Just search retirement success and main podcast. You can find some more additional content on those platforms or even Google on our blog as well. Love to at this time. Welcome in the Lieutenant Dan to my Fort Gump, Curtis Worcester. How you doing today, Curtis?

Curtis Worcester (01:13):

I'm doing well, Ben. I'm doing well. You teased it. The Patriots somehow squeezed out a win this weekend, so we'll take it. I don't know how many more of those we're going to get, but we got one.

Ben Smith (01:23):

And just like Forrest Gump, they just ran and ran and ran, right?

Curtis Worcester (01:27):

That's right. That's

Ben Smith (01:28):

Right. That's going to be the key to success. I'm not sure how I made those two things work, but I just didn't.

Curtis Worcester (01:33):

We did it

Ben Smith (01:35):

Well. So a few weeks back, we were talking with one of our clients and one of the things that we of course talk about with financial a lot, right? But one thing that our client was sharing with us is an area they felt powerless was their physical health.

(01:50):

And specifically there have been dealing with some chronic pain that despite their best efforts, seemed to impact their ability to enjoy retirement. And he told us, I never thought I'd have to spend my golden years managing pain and discomfort on a daily basis. And that kind of hit us hard as you're in that meeting and you're kind of thinking about that as like, geez, you kind of work your life to a certain point and you have resources and you have time, and now I'm kind of managing pain and that just doesn't feel like the life I was envisioning. So it really made us realize that for many retirees, well they plan for that. They don't really anticipate the physical challenges that can come with aging, especially how to manage chronic pain, and how do you maintain a positive attitude and find purpose when pain just becomes a part of your daily life, how do you continue to live a fulfilling and meaningful retirement despite physical limitations? So our goal today is to provide you with the tools and mindset to tackle chronic pain in a way that allows you to continue living an extraordinary life in retirement. So whether you're already managing physical challenges or want to be prepared for the future, we want this episode to really be filled with practical advice and inspiration.

Curtis Worcester (03:02):

That's right, Ben. And like we do on many of our shows, we like to bring in guests. Our guest today is a very sought after speaker who believes in the power of a good story to help inspire and motivate people to lead their uncommon and extraordinary lives. By combining his 12 year cancer journey with his diverse business, athletic coaching and hostage negotiation background, he delivers compelling, yet relatable presentations for conferences, online events, panels, meetings, and seminars. So our guest speaking topics include how to live your uncommon and extraordinary purpose, and the Fourth Truth to Leading a Resilient Life. In 2020, our guest wrote the book, sustainable Excellence, 10 Principles to Leading Your Uncommon, extraordinary Life. In 2024, our guest was featured as an author in the book Perspectives on Cancer Stories of healing, hope, and resilience. So our guest has also been on over 600 other podcast episodes worldwide on the topics of mindset, motivation, and personal development. So today on our show, we are honored to have him join us to share his wealth of knowledge and insights on managing and overcoming chronic pain in retirement. So at this time, please join me in welcoming Terry Tucker to our show today. Terry, thank you so much for coming on with us.

Terry Tucker (04:32):

Well, Curtis, Ben, thanks for having me on. I'm really looking forward to talking with you today.

Ben Smith (04:35):

Yeah, Terry, we're really excited about it. And again, I know there's a lot of things that we're going to cover today, but obviously whenever we get to know our guests, we want to just get to know you a little bit in terms of your background and things like that. Love to just hear about your upbringing, and I know we'll get into the career stuff, but just childhood is very formative in terms of how we live our lives and what lessons we learned from our parents. Just want to hear a little bit about that and that start of your story.

Terry Tucker (05:02):

Sure. So I was very fortunate to have a great childhood, a great upbringing. I'm the oldest of three boys. You can't tell this from looking at me or from my voice, but I'm six foot eight inches tall and I was actually able to go to college at the Citadel in Charleston, South Carolina on a basketball scholarship. I've got another brother who's six foot seven who was a pitcher for the University of Notre Dame's baseball team, and then another brother who's six foot six who was drafted by the Cleveland Cavaliers in the National Basketball Association. And then my dad was six five. So we used to joke growing up that if you sat behind our family and church growing up, not a prayers chance to visit, it was going on at the front of the church. Our parents taught us the value of family, of loving each other, of caring for each other, of supporting each other, and they used to do what I call divide and conquer parenting. I was like, I would have a game at five o'clock on Thursday night at this, and my brother would have a practice at five o'clock on Thursday night at that location. So dad's going with me, mom's going with my brother, and our whole family literally revolved around sports growing up. So I think the lessons our parents taught us, my brothers and I have tried to pass down to our family today as well.

Curtis Worcester (06:15):

Wow, I love that. Terry. So I know you just kind of teased it up a little bit, but obviously your background, right? ncaa division one basketball player. I know we haven't talked about it a ton, but marketing executive, hospital administrator, customer service manager, a SWAT hostage negotiator, a business owner, a basketball coach, and this last one, cancer warrior. I guess my question for you, what has been the common thread through that kind of career journey and life journey for these diverse roles?

Terry Tucker (06:48):

I guess in one word to answer that question would be service. I think that's another thing our parents taught. My brothers and I, both of my brothers are in education, have been in education, high school education their entire lives, and I had a lot of jobs, but if you asked me what I did for a living, I would tell you I was a police officer. So the service aspect of that is you've been given a lot. You're very fortunate in the things that you have you need to give back, whether it's on an individual basis or whether it's to your community, serving in education, serving in law enforcement, whatever that ends up being. So service is really, I think for me, the underpinning of everything that I've done in my life. And I think my brothers would say the same thing as well.

Ben Smith (07:32):

Well, obviously as we kind of go through that, Terry is you wrote a book, right? So you have this life experiences and then you're like, Hey, I want to write a book, the Sustainable Excellence 10 principles to Leading Your Uncommon, extraordinary Life. Tell us a little bit about why you wanted to write that book.

Terry Tucker (07:50):

Well, in all honesty, I didn't, I never expected to write a book. I never really wanted to write a book. There's kind of an old joke that says when we talk to God, it's called prayer. When God talks to us, it's called schizophrenia. So God never talked to me and said, Hey, Terry, write a book. But I think what God did for me, and I think this has happened other times in my life, is that he put enough people in my path that started to make the same suggestion over and over and over a book, Terry, Terry, she write a book, and I think I'm smart enough now, or at least wise enough as I get older to pay attention to that when it happens that maybe there's something here that I need to focus on. So Sustainable Excellence was really a book born out of two conversations I had Curtis just mentioned, I used to be a high school basketball coach, and I did, it was a girls' high school basketball coach when we were in Texas.

(08:40):

And I had one of my former players move to the area in Colorado with her fiance where my wife and I live, and the four of us had dinner one night, and I remember saying to her after dinner that I was excited that she was living close and I could watch her find and live her purpose. And she got real quiet for a while, and then she looked at me and she said, well, coach, what do you think my purpose is? I said, I have absolutely no idea what your purpose is, but that's what your life should be about finding the reason or the reasons you were put on the face of this earth, and there are reasons you're here using your unique gifts and talents and living that reason. So that was one conversation. And then I had a young man in college reach out to me on social media and he asked me what I thought were the most important things he should learn, not to just be successful in his job or in business, but to be successful in life. And I didn't want to give him that get up early, work hard help out. I didn't want to give him sort of the cliches that we already know.

(09:37):

So I took some time and I eventually took some notes and had sort of these 10 thoughts, these 10 ideas, these 10 principles, and so I sent them to 'em and then I stepped back and I was like, well, I got a life story that fits underneath that principle, or I know somebody whose life emulates this principle. So literally during the four to five month period, and we'll probably get into this, I had my leg amputated in 2020. While I was healing during that process, I sat down at the computer every day and I built stories and the real stories about real people underneath each of the principles, and that's how sustainable excellence came to be.

Curtis Worcester (10:13):

That's fantastic. And I'm going to tell everybody listening right now to just click pause. We're going to have links to that book and the other book as well, but to sustainable excellence in our show notes. So pause it right now, go find it, we'll plug it. So make sure everyone check that out. But Terry, I want you kind of teed it up there a little bit. So we really want to get into dealing with pain and chronic pain and retirement. I know you just mentioned in 2020 with your leg, obviously you faced an extraordinary challenge in your life with your cancer journey. How have you managed to maintain a positive attitude through this physical pain and difficulties?

Terry Tucker (10:54):

I think a lot of it has to do with understanding we're all going to have pain in our lives. And it doesn't have to be any kind of a physical element. I mean, it could be as simple as you break up with your boyfriend or your girlfriend or you get let go from your job or the plane you're leaving on to go on vacation gets canceled or something like that. Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. I wish I would've said that quote. It is been attributed to so many different people, but I really love that, and I think being able to handle pain has to do with where is your focus? And what's gotten me through this 12 plus year battle with cancer is what I call my three Fs, which for me has been faith, family, and friends. I have a very deep faith in God that I have a purpose that I'm carrying out at this point in my life.

(11:40):

And I think a lot of times we, especially when we get older and we retire and things like that, we think, okay, I'm just going to sit on the porch and I'm going to drink pina coladas and it's going to be great. And then all of a sudden you realize, okay, this is great for about two weeks and now I'm bored, and my wife is also in the financial services industry and has counseled different people, including my brother who was like, I want to retire. And the one question my wife always asks these people is, what will you do when you retire? And if they don't have a good answer, then she always says, well, then maybe you ought to put that off until you figure out what you want to do. So I think understanding that wherever you are in your life, you need a purpose. You need to have something that you can commit yourself to however long I want to do it one day a week or five days a week or whatever it ends up being, but have that purpose in life. And if you do that, and I think you should have it until the day that you die, life all of a sudden gets a lot more fulfilling and you can handle a lot more pain and discomfort.

Curtis Worcester (12:40):

And so following that up, Terry, I guess the question I have kind of focusing to our audience here is what specific advice would you give to retirees or people listening to this show who may be struggling with, again, our questions are based around kind of chronic health issues, but really any type of chronic pain, like you said, physical or anything in your life. What kind of advice would you give directly to them to kind of help get through it?

Terry Tucker (13:08):

I guess I would suggest don't wait. I mean, just like if you think something's wrong with your body, waiting is never a good thing. Well, maybe it'll go away or in two weeks from now, things will be good. Now go see somebody, go see a provider or a professional and find out what's going on because it's amazing the things that are out there that are not necessarily drug related. You don't have to go on Oxycontin or something like that to get rid of your pain. There are other things available. Go find those things, go see what you can do. The other thing I would tell people, and I recommend this, I don't care what your age is, is every day of your life do at least one thing that scares you, that makes you nervous, that makes you uncomfortable, that's potentially embarrassing. It doesn't have to be a big thing, but if you do those small things every day when the big disasters in life hit us and they hit all of us, we lose somebody who's close to us. We get let go from our unexpectedly, from our job. We find out we have a chronic or a terminal illness, you'll be so much more resilient to handle that pain when it presents itself.

Ben Smith (14:13):

Terry, I know that when we did a little pre-show chat and we were kind of going through it, I was really struck by your cancer journey itself. I'd love to just hear you tell that journey and just going from the diagnosis and what you were experiencing, as you said, you're now a 12 year cancer survivor here. Can you just walk us through what that started with, what you had to deal with in that journey and where you are today? I think that's just really formative for our audience to know.

Terry Tucker (14:44):

Sure. So 2012, I was a girls' high school basketball coach in Texas, and I had a catalyst break open on the bottom of my foot right below my third toe. And initially I didn't think much of it because as a coach you're on your feet a lot. But eventually after a couple of weeks it didn't heal and I made an appointment. I went to see a podiatrist, a foot doctor friend of mine, and he took an X-ray and he said, Terry, I think you have a cyst in there and I can cut it out. And he did, and he showed it to me. It was just a little gelatin sack with some white fat in it, no dark spots, no blood, nothing that gave either one of us concern. But fortunately or unfortunately, he sent it off to pathology to have it looked at. And then two weeks later, I received a call from him.

(15:25):

And as I mentioned, he was a friend of mine and the more difficulty he was having explaining to me what was going on, the more frightened I was becoming until finally he just laid it out for me. He said, Terry, I've been a doctor for 25 years and I have never seen the form of cancer that you have. You have an incredibly rare form of melanoma, and most people think of melanoma as a disease of the skin because you are exposed to the sun. Mine has nothing to do with sun exposure. It's a rare form of a disease that appears on the bottom of the feet or the palms of the hands. Mine obviously appeared on the bottom of my foot because it was so uncommon. He recommended I go to MD Anderson Cancer Center, probably one of the better cancer centers in the United States to be treated.

(16:11):

And so I did, and they took off basically the bottom of my foot and all the lymph nodes in my groin. And then they told me, well, you should probably get your affairs in order because we have nothing to offer you other than surgery, so you'll probably be dead in two years. And I thought, well, you gave me a death sentence. Maybe I can somehow turn that death sentence into a life sentence. And that has started this 12 year, 12 plus year odyssey that I've been on with all kinds of amputations and medications and all kinds of fun stuff like that.

Ben Smith (16:44):

And Terry, I know as part of that journey too, you kind of mentioned that obviously pain was a part of this entire journey, and I know that was something that you had shared with me about experiencing pain almost on a daily basis. But as you said, kind of not taking this as a death sentence, but taking it as a life sentence. How did you square the two things? Because I could see where they're just in conflict with each other and I could see where it would be really easy to submit and let pain just take over your life and just go, my quality life isn't here and I'm just not going to live with that.

Terry Tucker (17:21):

And I think your quality of life is what you make of your quality of life. I just finished rereading for I don't know how many of time Viktor Frankl's man's search for meaning. And if people who don't know about Frankl, he was a Holocaust survivor. He was in Auschwitz during World War ii and some of the things he talks about in there, I mean, yes, I faced death, but not the way that those people faced it and the things that they had to go over. And it's finding really meaning in your misery is really what it comes down to, what matters to you in life. When I was given that death sentence by those doctors, I always used to say that doctors are kind of like Vegas. They sort of play the odds. They look at you as you're okay, this is a 51-year-old man in this physical health with this stage of cancer that equates to, well, you're going to be dead in two years.

(18:17):

But what the doctors don't know is that you want to see your child graduate from high school or you want to walk your daughter down the aisle, or you want to play with your grandkids. And that mental aspect of being able to control the pain of your physical body is so incredibly powerful. And I've used that a lot in my life of being able to control my mind to deal with the pain. But the opposite of that is true. I've seen people where doctors have said, Hey, you're going to die in two years, and literally on the two year anniversary date they die. They take that as gospel. I've never been a human being that basically said, whatever, somebody in a white coat with a bunch of initials after their name tells me that's what I'm going to do. I want my life to be based on the decisions that I made, not on the ones that I didn't make or that somebody else made for me.

Ben Smith (19:09):

So Terry, I love that. Again, you're talking about the power of mind and how we can kind of force outcomes just by kind of willing itself. And I think that's a really important thing where having hope, having goals, having direction in what we're trying to do. So I'd love to just hear a little bit about your thoughts of some practical tips or techniques that, again, our audience, retirees, pre-retirees that they can use to keep a positive mindset, especially during those physically and emotionally challenging times. So how can you coach people to, what are some things they could do?

Terry Tucker (19:43):

I think it starts, like I said, with doing uncomfortable things every day. I mean, there's a lot of, right now cold therapy is kind of a big deal. I think the science is still out on whether cold therapy is something that's positive for your body. But I do that every time I take a shower, I turn the water as cold as I can and I run it over my body and it's uncomfortable. I don't like it. And it's not so much that I'm hoping it gives me something, but what it does is allow me to be like, okay, this sucks. I don't like this. This is uncomfortable. But if I can do this, then I can deal with when the stump that I have that's left of my leg, when it starts, those nerves start to fire and I have no control over it and it's uncomfortable and it really beats me up. Or when I go to treatment every three weeks and I get my medication. So I think it start today, do something that's uncomfortable. I'll give you an example the other day. I hate going to the dentist, and I know hate's a strong word, but I hate going to the dentist. The other day, I picked up the phone and made an appointment for my six month cleaning, and I'm like, oh, that's no big deal. Well, when you hate the dentist as much as I do it, it's big deal.

(20:50):

Those things in your life that you don't like, we tend to avoid them. It's like, no, I don't like that. I don't want to do that. Don't avoid 'em. Get into it just once a day, whatever it ends up being, I should go for a walk around the block. No, I'd rather watch the football game. The Patriots are winning. Hey, they're going to win tonight. We like this. So watch the Patriots win the football. No, go walk around the block. Do things that are uncomfortable in your body and I'll leave you with this story. Back in the 1950s, there was a professor at Johns Hopkins University who did an experiment with rats, and he took rats and he put 'em in a tank of water that was over their head, and he wanted to see how long the average rat treaded water and the average rat treaded water for about 15 minutes.

(21:34):

And just as those rats were getting ready to sink and drown, he reached in, grabbed them, pulled them out, dried 'em off, let 'em rest for a while, and then he took those exact same rats and put 'em back in that exact same tank of water. And the second time around, on average, those rats treaded water for 60 hours. Now think about that. Yeah, 15 minutes. It's not like you're going to flunk a test or your business is going to go, you're going to die. Your life is going to be over. And the second time around 60 hours, which taught me two things and one of you just mentioned it, the importance of hope in our lives that if we know we're doing the right things, maybe not today, maybe not this month, maybe not even this year, but if we know we're doing the right things, there's a good chance we'll get to where we want to be.

(22:20):

And the second thing it taught me, and I've experienced this in my life, is just how much more our physical bodies can handle than we ever thought they could. We give up. We quit. We give in long before our physical bodies do because we listen to our minds. Our minds are like, Hey, this hurts. This is uncomfortable. I don't like it. Stop doing it. And we listen to them. Think about yourself as a marathon runner. We always hear about marathon runners that they hit the wall, they get to that, what I can't go on, but if they just put one foot in front of the other, they just keep moving forward. All of a sudden they get that second win, they get that breakthrough. Life is exactly like that. When things are really bad, when you are hurting, keep moving forward eventually get that second wind.

Curtis Worcester (23:04):

I love that. Terry, and I want to build on this because I know we're talking about that question that Ben just asked. Things are getting tough. We're trying to push through at some point, I think at some degree, to all of us, the pain and discomfort we may be experiencing can start to really feel overwhelming. We're hitting that wall, the water's coming in over the edge. How can we kind of embrace that feeling of being overwhelmed and really wanting to just give in essentially and really build a resilience rather than just giving up?

Terry Tucker (23:40):

Yeah, I mean, again, I think it is hard that as you say, the water's coming over the edge and you're drowning. Oh, now I'm going to try to buffer myself. I'm trying to get myself ready. Get yourself ready now, do those uncomfortable things. One of my good friends, actually a young man who works for my wife is a former Navy Seal, and he's kind enough on my off weeks of treatment just call to check up on me and see how things are going. A lot of times we talk about what the seals talk about in terms of their 40% rule, which basically says, if you're done, if you're at the end of your rope, if you can't go on, you are only at 40% of your maximum and you still have another 60% left in reserve to give to yourself. And I think that story sort of dovetails with the rat story that I just told where, and don't get me wrong, I mean I think we all have a breaking point, so don't get me wrong, but I think that breaking point is so much further down the road than we ever give ourselves credit for. Like I say, we quit. We give up. We give in long before our bodies are just like, I can't do it anymore because we listen to our minds. Callous your mind now. Strengthen your mind now by doing those small uncomfortable things so that when the big disasters hit, you'll be ready to handle 'em. So

Ben Smith (24:58):

Terry, I'd love to, obviously you kind of talked about that life sentence instead of the death sentence. I don't want to kind of talk to you about that real quick because I think one of the things that I think as we're all aging our lives doesn't matter where we are, is that we all worry about legacy is what Mark did. We leave on this world when we are no longer in it? And I think that's a question I think we all start asking ourselves as we continue to age. And I think that, so kind of having this question on how can I focus on, and you kind of have this quote of what they weave in the hearts of other people, I think is a quote I've had attributed to, as you say, so that we're ensuring that someone's leaving behind a meaningful impact as part of their legacy. Can you kind of explain that quote a little bit and how you've approached that?

Terry Tucker (25:46):

Yeah. What you leave behind is what you weave in the hearts of other people. And I remember, and I might sort of botched this a little bit, but Merrill Lynch did a study with people 55 and over asking him that kind of question, what's your legacy? What does legacy mean to you? And almost 90% of those people said it had nothing to do with the material things that I'm going to leave behind. It had to do with the connections, it had to do with the relationships that I had. And I love Mr. Rogers. Most of us have heard about Fred Rogers, grew up in Pennsylvania, had the television show, Mr. Rogers neighborhood and educated so many young people including me on public television when I was growing up. When Fred Rogers died in 2003, his family was going through his effects and they found his wallet, and inside his wallet was a scrap piece of paper on which Mr. Rogers had written four simple words, life is for service.

(26:48):

I think if you look at your life and Ben Curtis, I've seen so many people in my life that feel that they're born empty and that when they get out of school and they get into life, whatever that looks like for them, that then their job is to fill up their empty self. I've got to make the most money, drive the nicest car, live in the nicest house, have all the latest gadgets and gizmos. What I found is it's just the opposite. We're not born empty. We're all born full with everything we need to be successful, however you define that word in your life already inside of us. We just need to find it, pull it out, and use it for our benefit. So I really think that our purpose in life should not be what we get. It should be what we give. So it shouldn't be filling ourselves up. It should be emptying ourselves out with our unique gifts and talents, certainly for the betterment of ourselves, but also for the betterment of our families, of our friends, of our communities, and of our country. And I think when you make that paradigm shift where it's not what I can get, it's what I can give, all of a sudden your life really opens up and just takes on a whole different meaning regardless of how much pain and suffering you're going through in your life.

Ben Smith (28:01):

Terry, I want to share a quick story with you too and put a few things that you just said together. Again, one of the things that we're trying to do as financial advisors is trying to say, well, not only what's the purpose of your life, but also what's the purpose of money to support your life? Trying to match those two things together. And Curtis and had a client, then he was asking about kind of exploring this, and he kind asked the question of, I really want to buy a car for my grandchild. He's like, but can I forward it and is that the best thing to do and maybe they should work for it. I had to work for it. And so we chatted when we were having a cup of coffee, we're sitting there and I said, just picture this. You take your grandson to that car dealership you guys go through and you talk through the right car for them and the right amount of space and trunk space.

(28:57):

They've got sports and they got this, and they talk about going to college and that car is going to allow them to get to college. And you kind of work through what's the right amount of money and negotiate it. And you go through this and said, think about this. Your grandson is going to think about this experience probably for the rest of his life as he buys any car that he goes through and thinks about that as he turns the key in ignition or maybe pushes the button now, whatever the story is. But he's got to think about that and think about a legacy where you taught financial moment to your grandson. You talk about the power of this vehicle represents to them. You talked about the negotiation of it, but you shared something together and think about what is the purpose of money and purpose of our life and our legacy and what we weave together, as you're saying, it's like those are the powerful things about what we're kind of giving and that that's the echo in our lifetime.

(30:00):

So what you said, and I just was like, well, that's the perfect thing. And he goes, I never thought about that, Ben and Curtis. I never would've put that together. He goes, that's probably one of the most important things I could do with my money that moment and what that's going to translate into who he is and how he's going to develop and how he thinks about money and cars in the future, then I want to be a part of that. So I just wanted to share that before we move on, because I thought that was a really good corollary to what you're saying here, Terry.

Terry Tucker (30:30):

That's a great story and I'm reminded of another story that I heard, and I don't think this is a true story, but it's a story that has a great message to it, and it's about Alexander the Great, probably one of the greatest conquerors of all times. And supposedly this story goes that as Alexander the Great is dying, he calls his counselors together and he says, I want you to carry out my final three wishes. My first wish is that I want only my doctors to carry my casket, my coffin to the grave. My second wish is that I want the road to the cemetery paved with gold and silver and precious stones. And the third wish that I have is that you leave my hands hanging out of my coffin. And one of his counselor steps forwards and says, you're Alexander the Gray. You're the most powerful man in the world.

(31:14):

And these seem like my words, not his kind of goofy wishes. Why did you want to do this? And he said, well, he said, number one, I want my doctors to carry my coffin to the grave because I want people to understand that no doctor heals anybody. They just help the body to heal itself. And so people should pay attention to how they treat their bodies, what they eat, exercise and things like that. He said, the second wish about having the road to the cemetery paved with gold, silver, and precious stones, he said, I spent my entire life accumulating wealth and power and influence, and yet none of that is coming with me beyond the grave. And then he said, the third wish of my hands hanging outside of my coffin. He said, I want people to understand that I came into this world empty handed, and I leave it the same way. And I love that story. I think it talks about Ben, just exactly what you're talking about. It's not those things, it's those relationships. It's those connections. It's what we teach younger people, the next generation coming up. That's what really makes our life important.

Curtis Worcester (32:17):

Yeah, that's a great story. And I want to focus a little bit, Terry now on your work as a motivational speaker, right? And I heard you say earlier when you said you've had a lot of jobs, but you'd call yourself a police officer. So what stories or experiences from your time as a police officer or even back in your athletic career or maybe coaching career, what stories can you pull from that that have influenced your approach to overcoming adversity? And how can retirees or listeners apply similar principles to navigate challenges in their lives?

Terry Tucker (32:50):

That's a great question. And I guess, let me just give you some of the things that I learned when I was a hostage negotiator. I remember when I first started, they gave us a formula of how human beings communicate with each other. And that formula was 7 30, 8 55. So 7% of how we communicate a message with each other are the words that we use. And think how many times in your life you are like, oh, I wish I hadn't have said that. Oh, I wish I would've said that in a different way. That's only 7% of how that message gets communicated. 38% is the tone of voice that you use with that message. Are you yelling and screaming? Are you happy? Are you down? Are you depressed? How is that tone of voice communicating your message? And then more than half of how we communicate a message with each other is our body language and our facial expressions. And they gave that formula to us with the understanding that when we were negotiating with somebody, if you had a gun and you were barricaded in a room somewhere, I was not in the room with you trying to get you to put that gun down.

Curtis Worcester (33:49):

So

Terry Tucker (33:50):

We ended up not having the luxury of having that 55%. So I couldn't say something to you, Curtis, and be like, and I could watch you kind of roll your eyes like what an idiot. I can't believe he said that to me kind of thing. So we had to get good at figuring things out, certainly based on what people were saying, but also what they weren't saying and how they were saying it. And so that was incredibly important. And I guess some of the other things that we learned, and we used to call this tactical empathy. I think you get rid of the word tactical and empathy applies to all of our situations. We would get on scene a lot of times, they have no idea why we were there, what precipitated this person to do what they did.

Curtis Worcester (34:34):

And

Terry Tucker (34:34):

So by saying, Hey, Curtis, I'm Terry. What's going on today? Basically, help me to understand where you're coming from. And the important word there is understand, if you were a homicide suspect that just killed three people, I wasn't going to agree that what you did was right, but by understanding, by getting you to believe that I was understanding where you were coming from, understanding builds trust and trust gets me to a point where I can get you out safely. So especially today, we've got this whole, we're yelling and screaming at each other, and while we're yelling and screaming at each other, we can't hear what either person is saying. Like I said, find out where other people are coming from. Help me understand where you're coming. I mean, I agree with you, but at least by doing that, we've started a dialogue and that dialogue can lead to trust, which can lead to building a better relationship with another human being.

Ben Smith (35:28):

Jerry, that's really insightful. Again, I think there's, obviously, we're heading into an election season too, and I think that we all kind getting a little fever pitch with both sides, and I think there's the talking points that either side has in response to something else's said. So I think just maybe the listening part and understanding those two things combined maybe can help maybe turn some of that down. So that's really great. I know you've said a few times, Terry, so far about that not quitting really has been the key to never being defeated, that just, again, having something to live for today and having something and being uncomfortable in those sorts of pieces. So I want to just kind of think about not only just maybe newly retired, but maybe people that are well into retirement and they feel like maybe that their best years are behind them. And we hear that some is, Hey, I used to be able to, and I used to this and all these past statements. How would you advise them to keep pushing forward to create a fulfilling and extraordinary life in retirement? Even in the face of say, I do have chronic pain or something going on there?

Terry Tucker (36:37):

Sure. So I mean, I'll just look at my life. I spent so much of my life before I got cancer doing physical things. I played division one college basketball, a police officer. I was on a SWAT team and now I'm in a wheelchair and I don't have a left leg. So how do you balance that? I think when you can't do what you were good at, you do what's important in life, I really think that's kind of what I've been doing. I mean, I always say that I've probably done more living in the 12 plus years that I've been dying of cancer then I've done in my entire life. And I had a pretty good life before I developed cancer. So I mean, don't think that you get to the end of your life and it's over. I mean, there's nothing I can contribute. I always think back, my first job out of college was in the marketing department at Wendy's International, the hamburger chain at their corporate headquarters.

(37:28):

And I remembered the story that Colonel Sanders, Kentucky Fried Chicken, sort of a competitor, Harlan Sanders didn't start Kentucky Fried Chicken until after he retired. He was in his sixties when he started that business. So don't ever think. And I think a lot of times we sort get caught up in, well, there's a purpose, and we use that word in the singular in our life. There's one thing I'm supposed to do, and at least in my life, that word is plural. That word has been purpose is I think when I was younger, my job was to be an athlete, so to speak, and then it was to get into law enforcement. And then it's changed even again as I've gotten older and been dealing with cancer, put as much goodness, positivity, motivation, love back into the world as I can. So don't think of your life as, there's one thing while I've done it, so you know what, I might as well just go dig a hole and get in.

(38:18):

No, you can still be very effective, especially elderly people. The knowledge, the wisdom that you have that you can impart to other people is amazing. Get out there and start imparting that stuff. Go talk to kids at school. They will be amazed at the stories that you've had in your life and things like that. You're not at the end of your life until you're dead. And I always say that I want to be a lifelong learner. I always want to be somebody that's learning until the very day that I die. You can learn as much from those young people as those young people can learn from you.

Curtis Worcester (38:50):

That's a really great answer, Terry, and I think that's something that everybody listening can take away. And even I think Ben and I, it's been really encouraging and insightful hearing your answers here. I want to rotate a little bit and talk about your for truths, right? So obviously those offer a framework for people. How would you adapt these principles, these four truths to someone entering retirement where physical limitations or health concerns may start to play a bigger role for them?

Terry Tucker (39:21):

I think we've talked a lot about how important it's to control the mind, and that's really the first truth, control your mind. It's it's going to control you. I went to college in a military school in South Carolina called The Citadel, and I remember one year, one of the people we had as president was a man by the name of James Stockdale. And Stockdale had been a prisoner of war. He was a naval aviator, shot down during the Vietnam conflict and spent eight years as a prisoner of war in the infamous prisoner of war camp known as the Hanoi Hilton in Vietnam. And I did not spend a lot of time around. He was the president of the college, I was just a cadet. But I remember being at an event with Admiral Stockdale, retired from the Navy as a rear admiral, and somebody asked him, who were the people that survived that torture, that pain, that brutality?

(40:08):

And he said, well, lemme tell you who didn't survive. He said, it wasn't the big, strong, tough guys who thought that they could handle any kind of abuse or torture. And the next thing he said, absolutely kind of floored me when he said it. He said, the other group that didn't survive were the optimists. He said, these were the people that thought they would be rescued or let go by Thanksgiving or Christmas or Easter. And he said, Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter would come and go and they wouldn't be rescued. And he said, those people died of a broken heart. He said, the people who survived were the people who understood what they could control, which according to the stock, that was basically the thoughts in our mind and the breathing in our lungs. Everything else was the discretion of the enemy and controlled that. And Curtis, I think where we get in trouble is we, especially as we get older, okay, I've got to control all this stuff. I've got to have my finances and my health and where I'm going to live and what my grandkids are doing. We've got to control all this stuff. And don't get me wrong, I get into that sort of mindset from time to time. But I think a very simple, very easy way to deal with that is to just take a piece of paper and write down everything that's bothering you, everything that's worrying you, and then look at that list and cross out everything that you have no control over.

Curtis Worcester (41:20):

And

Terry Tucker (41:21):

What's ever left on that list is something you can work on. The rest of that stuff, let it go. It's nothing you can control. It's driving you crazy. Control the things, deal with the things that you can control.

Ben Smith (41:33):

Terry, I love that because of course, as financial advisors like we are, again, we're being told to, well, we got to control. Well, the market went down, so we got to put a semblance of control into this and we got to figure something out to make it better. Right now. And again, these are things that they're externalities, right, is we don't control if the stock market goes up or it goes down or if this investment goes up or down. It just, again, we're trying to position things in the correct way and there's a faith of over time that things work in a certain way. But yeah, that's a really difficult thing. Again, we as advisors are trying to put a structure of something that doesn't, we don't control. We have a semblance of it. We can somewhat control some things, but at the end of the day, we are at the whim of the larger economy and what's happening.

(42:27):

So again, even us doing this and trying to translate this back to people that are making the fist together on screen of everything's got to be tightly wound and I got to have everything be locked down to the penny. That's just not the way I think a lot of things kind of work. So I really appreciate that advice there. I know we've talked a little bit about that service, right? Because you've talked about all the things in your life about athlete, coach, police officer, and even today speaking and writing that you're servicing people. And that's kind of the common thread is that having your full cup and servicing others, especially through humility, can you talk a little bit about, because I think that's something where Curtis and I hear this a lot from people, that their purpose was their career. And a lot of times they're being told, talk about what you can't control is, Hey, we don't think you're a great fit for our organization anymore after so many years of service and I think you should retire, right?

(43:29):

I think it's time for you to get done and forest retire and go and go figure something out. And they're left lost, right? They're like, well, that was my purpose. This is what I love to do. I was very good at it. To you point about athletics or at some point, all these things end. Can you talk a little bit about, alright, I'm a little bit lost right now. I don't really know what to do. I don't know where to go again, service is something that sounds good. How would you advise someone to go find an ability to go contribute to community, to family through service? Again, even in the face of say, physical or mental limitations,

Terry Tucker (44:06):

And I saw this when I was in law enforcement, I saw people whose identity was tied to that gun and that badge and that authority that they had, and they'd been working for 30, 35, 40 years, should have retired long ago. I mean, the department wasn't going to force them, so they would put them somewhere where they really weren't doing anything, but it was something to do. And I never took my value from the job that I had. I wanted to take my value based on my gifts and talents. So I guess I would suggest to these people, what are your gifts and talents? What are you good at? I was good with numbers. I was good with, I was an accountant or I was a teacher, or whatever it was. You can translate that skill to so many other things. There are organizations out there that would love to have you, whatever you have the time for one day a week, five days a week, seven days a week, whatever that you wanted to do.

(45:00):

My mother never worked a day in her life except a short period of time where my mom and dad were trying to exercise some stock options that my dad had an opportunity for. But after my dad died and my mother was looking for something to do, she became a customer service representative in an emergency room at the local hospital. And she got tremendous fulfillment. Even today as she's got dementia, some of the things that she remembers are the times that she served those people. And it was nothing more than a liaison to, Hey doc, what's the deal? How much longer before this person can get out of here? Or their test results, whatever it is. It was really just a liaison putting back information back and forth. Any of us could do, I'm not going to say could do that job. Maybe you don't want to do that job, but find those things out there. There are so many people that are desperate for people with your skills, whatever those are that could help that organization, which in turn could help other people in the community.

Ben Smith (45:55):

Terry, I got to share a personal note too, and this is my dad. So I got to put a plugin for my dad. I love 'em. So he was a 35 year long history teacher at a local high school. So history's in his blood, it's what he knows. So he retires and he's lost. He doesn't know what to do. He's gardening in the summer. And I know, and I go, geez, dad, it'd be great to, you're a social guy, you're extroverted. You should get onto Facebook a little bit and you should kind of connect with people. So he does. He does. And he starts going, there's these things called these pages. So we start exploring pages and he goes, in my local town, no one's really explored the history of my local town and the name of the town is Kaus gig because I think it would be great to do history lessons about what's happened and how it was formed and who did what, and highlight the citizens and their stories and celebrate their achievements and where they've gone and what's happening right now and highlight this.

(47:03):

So he made his own conduct, egg History Tales Facebook page, and people are just plugging into this and they're going, well, so here's a history lesson of the Civil War founder and how he went and was a captain of local civil war brigade and here's his impact on the Civil War and how there's a local library that has his bayonet and has his gun and it has his uniform there. Boom. So he's now getting this feedback. He's extroverted, he's having conversations with people on a daily basis. He's using his research and finding history of his local town to create pride of citizenship and patriotism. So all these kind of things. And you blend together in the puree setting of the blender. And he's like, and I'm in service and I'm in service of this town. And people are from all across the country that are from Kendo Egg are plugging into this and they're adding their own stories.

(48:04):

And you can see it brims him with pride. He loves it. I am sharing that of to your point about service and finding what I'm good at. And then you put things together. But there's no way we would've known, he would've made a Facebook page. That would've been the thing. You can have to be open to discovery and be uncomfortable and trying technology that you don't know. And he did all that. And now that's something that every day he looks forward to and he's finding new things about. So I just wanted to share that with you. I think it really highlights everything you're talking about,

Terry Tucker (48:38):

And that's a great story. And I think the same thing when I started my website, motivational check. It was four pages originally. It took me four months. I'm sure my daughter could have done it in 15 minutes, but your dad, it's like, I don't know about this stuff. I've got to go figure this out. I'm looking. I can turn my cell phone on in the morning, let alone put up a webpage. So yeah, I mean there's pride in, I have grown. I'm a better person because I'm doing this and I'm also providing a service to people like your dad in the community. And I'm sure when he walks down around town and stuff like that, oh, you're the guy who did. Yeah, that's me. You can just see the pride. I can just see, I don't even know your dad, but I can sort of see his face with that big smile. Yeah, I did

Curtis Worcester (49:22):

That. That's awesome. Terry, I want to ask a question. This question's something that we've talked about a bunch on this show and in previous episodes, but really want to get your perspective on it. And the one word question, if I could ask it in one word, it's about gratitude. So when we're facing these daily pains or limitations, no matter how old we are, honestly, how are you able to find joy and purpose in these small everyday moments? And how do you teach people or how do you speak to people really about how to shift their perspective to really focus on gratitude and positivity while they may be experiencing struggles?

Terry Tucker (50:02):

That's a great question. One of the nurses that cares for me now is a former hospice nurse. And for those of your audience who don't know about hospice, it's people who take care of others at the end of their life. It's end of life care. And she gave me a book to read, and the book was called Imagine Heaven. And it's a book about people who have near death experiences. And I learned a lot from the book, but one of the big takeaways that I came with from reading that book was no matter who the person having that near death experience saw during that experience, whether it was God or an angel or a saint or a friend or a relative, whoever, it was almost everybody. God asked one question and that question was, how do you care for my people? In other words, how do we take care of each other, how do we make connections with each other?

(50:49):

I mean, Ben Curtis, a hundred years from now, nobody's going to remember you. Any of us were here. But what they could remember or what might get passed down is sort of that ripple effect when you throw a stone into a pond and that ripples out those connections you made with other people. I mean, when I go to get my therapy, I mean, I don't want anybody to think you're looking at me right now. There's no S on my chest. You do not have a cape and fly around with magical power. I have bad days. I cry, I get down, I feel sorry for myself. But when I do that, I just look at that and say, okay, I'm looking inward. Woe is me. Look how horrible this is. I feel terrible. I hurt. And I find a very simple way to get over that is to reach out to another human being.

(51:32):

Hey, how's it going? Call somebody. Hey, how's it going today? What's going, Hey, you want to have a cup of coffee? You want to get together, smile at somebody. We have mirror neurons in our brain. If I smile at you, those mirror, see, don't say that three times fast. Those mirror neurons in your brain will engage and you'll smile and you won't even realize why. But now all of a sudden you've brightened another human being's day. So I guess an easy way to do that is when you're down, when you're feeling down, now all of a sudden I'm grateful because I made a difference in another human being's life simply by saying hi or smiling at them or just ask, how's it going today? Or something like that. I think we make life much too complicated. Just doing something as simple as that will brighten your day, brighten their day, and the amount of gratitude that comes from that is just amazing.

Curtis Worcester (52:24):

Yeah, that's just a fantastic answer, Terry. I really appreciate that. So I have one kind of wrap up question for you, but before I ask, I just want to say on behalf of, I think I'm speaking for Ben confidently, speaking for Ben here as well. Just thank you so much for coming on your show, our show, and sharing your story and providing your insights and expertise. And I think it was a really great conversation and we're super happy to have it. But I do have one final question for you. So again, the name of our show, retirement Success in Maine, have to ask, how do you plan on finding your own personal retirement success?

Terry Tucker (53:02):

That's a great question. I probably will never retire. I mean, I don't think, be like my wife. What do you want to do when your retirement? I have no idea. So I better keep what I'm doing and things like that when I was, I guess, let me back up for a second, Curtis. Ben, thank you for the opportunity to be on here with you today. This has been great, and I hope our conversation provided value to your audience. When I was growing up, there was a basketball coach at UCLA by the name of John Wooden, who I was a huge fan of, hung on his every word and Wooden had what I call, I've never found a better definition of success in life. What does successful retirement look like? And this is what Wooden said. He said, success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction and knowing that you did the best to become the best that you're capable of becoming. And I think that definition, again, one of the winningest coaches in college basketball, nothing in that definition says anything about winning or

Curtis Worcester (54:01):

Losing it.

Terry Tucker (54:02):

It just says, did I do my best? And if that's what retirement looks like for you, I did the very best I could before I retired and after I retired, as far as I'm concerned. That's a great definition. Love that Terry.

Ben Smith (54:16):

Love that. Again, as Curtis said, we really appreciate you coming on our show today. This is just amazing in regards to a nice little library piece for us and our listeners, I believe to not just listen to once, but to come back to, because I think there's, in our lives, we are sometimes on positive notes and sometimes we're in negative notes, and sometimes we got to kind of remind ourselves when we're kind of hit some of those low points that, hey, we can work through this. We can refocus ourselves. We can kind of get to, again, those four truths that you offer as a framework. But we really appreciate you coming on the show and really great to meet you today. And thanks so much.

Terry Tucker (54:56):

Well, thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed talking to you both.

Ben Smith (54:58):

Take care. So really great to have Terry Tucker on the show today.

(55:02):

Again, talk about what a diverse experience of life he's had and talk about again, swot, hostage negotiation, coach marketing, and kind of all those kind of life experiences, but also the cancer piece too, and understanding that. And again, you kind go, here's someone that has had a pretty long relationship with cancer and here's an he's experienced to all of it. And to go through and have that attitude is really remarkable. So very fortunate, I think for all of us to hear from Terry today and kind of get those lessons down. So we are at episode 1 0 1, 1 0 1. So we want you to go and check out Terry's book because I think if you enjoyed hearing from him in this hour, I think you'll definitely love to experience his reading there and the Sustainable Excellence book. So love for you to go there. So go to our blog at blog dot guidance point llc.com/ 1 0 1, and you can go and you'll find in the show notes, again, all the transcript, but you also find the link to Terry's website, motivational check.com and the Amazon link to his book. So those things out, again, we were very privileged to be in front of you. We really appreciate you listening and tuning into us, and we'll catch you next time.