The Retirement Success in Maine Podcast Ep 048: Rightsizing Our Stuff as We Age

 

 

Transcript 

Ben Smith:

Welcome everyone, to the Retirement Success in Maine podcast. My name is Ben Smith. I'm joined with my two co-hosts, Abby Doody and Curtis Worcester, the U-Haul and Penske to my mayflower. How are you guys doing today?

Curtis Worcester:

Feeling good.

Abby Doody:

How are you, Ben?

Ben Smith:

I'm good. I'm good. Well, we've done one or two episodes at this point. So we're kind of keep rolling down the tracks here with our show. And one of the things that we've been talking about more is getting the aging process and what are some things and barriers that we're encountering as we're aging. And one thing that spurred us we've been talking about some time amongst our team and that's been coming up with our clients is actually highlighted by September 8th, 2020 CNBC article that was titled, Here's What You Need to Know about Moving in Retirement by Jill Cornfield.

Ben Smith:

Sixty-four percent of retirees say they're likely to move at least once during retirement. And downsizing such as moving to a smaller, more manageable property in the same area is the most typical move that people make. And it makes sense from several perspectives. It's most likely to be in line with lifestyle goals and your life isn't uprooted. But what's the barrier for us to accomplish this? It's usually our stuff.

Ben Smith:

So if we're downsizing, we probably need to cut back on the things we have, but how do we choose which of our things will fit our new home and which won't? But maybe you're not just downsizing to new home, but maybe you're an empty nester with a house full of stuff that represents memories, your loved ones and things you just can't get rid of because they'll mean something to you. Or perhaps you're now in retirement and doing all the things you always wanted to do, but the one thing you don't want to do is declutter your things. Or perhaps you're reaching a place in your current home and your home just needs to be rearranged so you can safely live in it. Or maybe you're helping a relative or recently a relative has passed away and you have the big job of going through their things but you don't know where to begin.

Ben Smith:

Well, these are common conversations that we've been having with our clients. And it really represents a barrier, and also common stressor to our relationships in our lives about us moving to the next stage of our own lives. So we want to have someone on our show to discuss this. So our search started for this topic, we went to the National Association of Senior and Specialty Move Managers. The acronym is an NASMM. And so we went to that website and looked up any members in Maine, and that's how we found our next guest and her business SimplySized Home.

Ben Smith:

So our next guest along with her sister, with aging parents of their own, and an attic full of long forgotten treasures, soon came to understand how emotional overwhelming the task of cleaning out a house can be. Every item had a story. Every possession evoked a memory. As they sat amongst a pile of books, Legos, and their beloved Barbie dolls, they knew there had to be an easier way and SimplySized Home was created.

Ben Smith:

Today's guest has a retail, marketing, and project management background. She loves her business SimplySized Home because she realized the value that the company brings to families who face the emotional task of downsizing and moving. For her, it is the perfect blend of working with wonderful clients with the logistical deadline driven process of moving. When not working, she spends time with her two kiddos, husband, family, and friends. Her favorite places to spend time are Panther Pond and Bayside. So at this point, I love to welcome Kim Dorsky to the Retirement Success in Maine podcast. Kim, thank you so much for coming on today.

Kim Dorsky:

Thanks for having me.

Ben Smith:

Well, obviously there's lots, and forgive the pun, to unpack here today. So we want to obviously go through a lot of different questions that our clients are facing when they're talking about downsizing and rightsizing our stuff as we age. But with all of our shows, we always like to get into you a little bit is why do you have a passion for this and what was the spur of the business? But I'd love to get a little bit more of your background here. And in your biography including your path towards working and co-owning SimplySized Home, so what's your origin story here?

Kim Dorsky:

I actually worked for a family, our family's company. And it made souvenirs that are sold throughout the United States. My father and uncle owned the company. And my sister actually worked there. So I was well aware of working with my sister. And when it came time for my father and uncle to sell, my cousins actually bought the company and Liz and I went on our way and decided to start a new company. When developing those products at souvenirs, it was a product management-driven business.

Kim Dorsky:

And I loved that, I loved managing all the different parts of the project but I was looking for something more meaningful, something that involved people. And we also were focused on working with seniors. So we looked at starting at a non-medical business for caring for seniors, doing errands, and part of it was going to be downsizing. And when our parents are getting older, my sister Liz and I, we were helping our parents. And up in the attic, mom had said probably 10 times, "Can you come over and clean out your stuff in our attic?" And finally, I said, "Liz, we better go."

Kim Dorsky:

So Liz and I went over and we sat there and we laughed and we read all the letters. And we came downstairs. We were there for a few hours. And Mom said, "Is it all gone?" And I said, "No." And she said, "What are you going to do with it?" I said, "Take it to our house." And she said, "Wait a second." I said, "Mom, this is too difficult. It's all important to us and we'll just take it to our house but we'll get it out of yours." And so we literally realize that it was very difficult for people to part with their things.

Kim Dorsky:

And so all of a sudden, the light bulb went off from making stuff to helping people part with stuff. And so, it was adding the human element of working with clients that are trying to go through this and all the moving parts that are so overwhelming to folks to help them actually get through this process and onto a simpler lifestyle in their retirement years. So that is how we started the business. It was pointed at working with seniors. It's grown a little bit from that to include anyone who is looking at moving. But the process is the same, to help folks troubleshoot what they need to do to get through this process.

Ben Smith:

Interesting. So Kim, from, again, discovering here's this "aha" moment, working with mom and trying to figure out how to declutter her attic of your things, how did you discover there really is a large need just more in your area and how people found out about you once you kind of said, "Hey, this is our niche, this is our market, this is what we do well." How is that word spread?

Kim Dorsky:

That's interesting. It was a new concept, literally a new concept in Maine. And everyone said, I think you're onto something. But people literally could not believe that there were people that did this, because it seems like such not dirty work but who likes to move, honestly. And then you look at a house that's full of 50 years' worth of accumulation, what do you do with all of this stuff? And that soon as people started to learn about it, they learned about it, our number one referrals our clients that we've worked with.

Kim Dorsky:

We hear from people almost like a three-pronged approach now that they heard about us from so and so and then they heard about us from a broker and then someone else had mentioned. So it's starting to catch on but it's out of state, people through NASMM and other organizations, they are more well aware of this service offered to people. We paved the way in Maine. And it has grown and grown and now we're in our 10th year, but it still people think, "Really? Is there someone that really does this?" And yes, there is.

Ben Smith:

Kim, from our perspective, and I know obviously we've been conversing leading up to this episode and we had a situation with a client that is she was aging at home and she lives in an area that you serve but her kids lived out of state and she moved to be with them. But they still had this property and they still have all that stuff from her whole lifetime. And it represents a lot to the family together. But the sons conversing with us that, "Geez, I'm moving, I'm coming up, I only have two weeks, I'm going to be here but I have to clean out mom stuff, and I have to do this and do that."

Ben Smith:

And I got all these things I have to do in two weeks and I'm really overwhelmed by the fact of going to this house and I have to be really expedient with my time but I don't know what I'm going to do here. And I said, "Well, geez, this is a very natural thing. Well, hey, here's a service if you're interested, SimplySized Home. I've talked to Kim Dorsky a few times." So afterwards he goes, "Man, I've looked at the website. This is exactly what I'd be looking for. I didn't know this existed."

Ben Smith:

So again, we even experienced that ourselves with our clients when we referenced that is, wow, I never knew this service existed. I can't believe it does. And, wow, I could really see myself using it. It's kind of been the build up to it. But I want to ask you, Kim, about, obviously, you've been doing this more than one minute here, you've been doing it for 10 years, as you said. Because, again, being the trailblazers especially in Maine, I'm sure you've discovered there's needs of Mainers in rightsizing their homes. What have you found out about things that maybe what you thought your service is going to be in even adjusting to the needs of Mainers or people in your region that you service? What have you found out there over the last 10 years?

Kim Dorsky:

Well, it started out literally sorting through their stuff and trying to figure out... Everyone wants their things to have a life beyond being with them. So, it was very interesting for us that that was their primary focus. I don't just want it to go into the dumpster. So figuring out where things could be sold, that was a real primary focus of ours, where it can be sold, where it can be donated, how can I get it to my kids if one wants a huge grandfather clock to go to Washington State.

Kim Dorsky:

So solving all of these things was important. It started out with that focus but then it soon transitioned into the moving management piece, which is putting the house on the market, focusing on what is to be packed or pre-packed to go with them. That's all part of the process in conjunction with the selling of their things. So, the need really in Maine is to get the job done. But to do it, everything in our business is listening to people's goals, figuring out what they really want. Everyone has a different path that they're taking, a unique situation that we're solving.

Kim Dorsky:

But everyone wants their things to be appreciated and go beyond instead of just going into a dumpster. So, that's one of the value added things that we do by thoughtfully disposing, meaning selling things to their kids, donating to appropriate causes that even a client has custom picked because they're involved with an organization. So, I don't know if that answers it but that's what we have discovered.

Ben Smith:

Yeah. Well, and I want to ask, Kim, to get into the process, I think where we really want to go today a lot. And again, for any of our topics, one of the things we want to do is just start with foundations. And I think we're just defining this term because as we said, you're really a trailblazer in Maine here. I just want to separate maybe there's a service that people are more familiar with than yours is this idea of you being really a move manager and being that as a service versus being a moving company.

Ben Smith:

Because I think a lot of people might be as we've referenced like mayflowers and things like that, which are more like moving companies. They show up and they pack it and send it to wherever it's going to go. What we're saying, I just want to ask you on how do you differentiate it when you get asked that question? Because I think on the surface if someone is not thinking about this, I think they might think that it's really just the same thing. So how would you define the difference between the two?

Kim Dorsky:

In one word, relationship. We come into people's lives. It all starts with a consultation. So, we go to meet with someone that's usually an hour, an hour and a half, something like that. We are learning all about them and their possessions. We do a quick walkthrough of the house. We're telling them about our services. We're seeing what resonates with them, what they might need. We literally see as we explain our different services with the helping to sell items, shipping to their kids long distance, helping them stage their house for putting it on the market. The packing, we hire movers. We do not pick up the furniture.

Kim Dorsky:

They start to understand that we are the ones that can solve everything, every anxiety that's on their plate and the relationship with us. That is a huge difference. So we hire the movers. Okay. The movers come in. We oversee the movers and move in and can follow them to their new home. But our movers come in and go out and they're there for maybe six hours. We are there day in, day out depending on how much of our services they would like to engage us for.

Kim Dorsky:

And we are the ones that are taking the anxiety off of their plate and putting it onto ours and solving every issue that comes up whether it has to do with disconnecting utilities, what are they going to do with the drums of the hazardous waste that are in the back of their yard, how are they going to solve a paint problem on the ceiling, should they take that carpet where a cat has been, or whatever it is, we're the ones that are saying, okay, we're guiding you on this, we can line this up. We're troubleshooting their every question and trying to solve it for them. That's the difference.

Ben Smith:

Okay. Clear.

Abby Doody:

So switching gears a little bit, in episode 23 of our podcast, we talked about the concept of solo aging with Sara Zeff Geber. And so many older adults have no surviving children or those children are older themselves. So how do move managers help with the process of rightsizing our stuff as we age, especially directly with older adults?

Kim Dorsky:

So older adults, if you're talking about the parents and they're trying to break apart their home, and number one, sometimes their kids are out of state, we're acting as the surrogate kids, basically, which again, is the relationship part of our business. Oftentimes, we call the elder children, they have things of their own. They're not here. They have things of their own. They would love to help mom and dad but they have busy lives.

Kim Dorsky:

So we step in. We help the parents physically and with making decisions. We also fold in the kids, which is great through communication these days with texting, photos, and emailing. And we can set up whole files of things, furniture that's available that their parents will not be taking with them, so that they can choose what they would like to keep and then we figure out how to get it to them. So, that is how we weave them in. At first people think who is... Actually I just did a move at the beginning of the week. And the woman had three children. They didn't know me from anyone. Why should they trust me? Who is this person that's working with mom?

Kim Dorsky:

And to talk with them and offer them my cell number when their mother was going to be without her service for three days, I became the person that is sending the photos, communicating with them at night. How did it go? What are mom's anxieties? I went through everything with them and updating them yesterday the move was complete, sent the kids pictures, they were so relieved. I took a picture of myself with their mother and send it to them. It just made them feel part of it to see a huge smile on their mother's face. So, weaving them in is so important to gain their trust.

Abby Doody:

That's great. And so, you touched on this a little bit. But what psychological barriers do you encounter when stepping into this role as a move manager?

Kim Dorsky:

Psychological barriers with both the kids and with the folks we are working with. The psychological barriers are my parents actually just moved and downsized. So first he had experience of it's stressful on us, the kids moving from a family home of 50 years, stressful on my parents, my parents were of sound help. But sometimes there are medical episodes that have happened that are causing a move to happen. So, you've got those barriers but then you have the emotional ones.

Kim Dorsky:

People are moving on to sometimes what they consider their last move, and that is hard psychologically for them. It's the accepting or non-acceptance of this may be their last stop of wherever they're going, the last car that they're buying, the things that they're being asked to part with, they can't take it all with them. So those are most of the barriers. But as I say to them that it's not going to necessarily be easy but we will get through it. And for the most part, we do have a lot of fun from the relationship standpoint, and they do get through it. So most of them are so logical they know what needs to be done. It doesn't make it any easier though.

Ben Smith:

But Kim, a quick follow-up on that, though. So I guess my question is, see, people get stuck, because just for in my own life where I've seen it with my wife's grandparents is that there was this whole like we got to move to the next, we're ready for assisted living, right now we're still in our own home. But this whole dealing with stuff is the barrier to going to the assisted living because I can't bear to let go of that thing and this thing and that thing, but it won't fit. It won't fit into the new place in that downsizing.

Ben Smith:

And because hard conversations were not being addressed, I think with some of it, and, again, I don't put any blame on anybody there, that's a really hard conversation to have. But sometimes not being able to address what happens to certain things and where things should go leads to delaying of maybe advancing of maybe safer places or safer locations. Have you seen some of that, too, in terms of what you're seeing for those barriers to moving on to next stages there?

Kim Dorsky:

We see them all the time.

Ben Smith:

Yeah.

Kim Dorsky:

But it doesn't mean that people don't come around. People are realistic of their new space, generally. And if they're not, there are solutions. And when I say what the solution is, you're going to say, huh, that's why they're so popular. Storage units. I mean, it's one of the biggest businesses out there now, and it's primarily because people can't part with their stuff. It is not our job to tell people they can't have their stuff. That is absolutely. And I will tell the elder children that thinks that everything's just going to disappear, and my mother is or my parents have a lot of stuff and they want to take it all with them, I'll say to them it's not my job to say they can't have their stuff.

Kim Dorsky:

I will talk logically with them. And in jest, that's where the humor comes in the relationship part where you say, honestly, do you really need 21 spatulas? And we laugh about it. And we start to pare things down. But if people really don't want to get rid of new things, then they are looking at external storage units. And I talked to them about the cost of that. I talked to them about timeframes of keeping things, but usually, if I can tell them that it's going to be a shelter in their town that needs things and there are so many people that can use the different things that you love, the first layer is selling them. And if the folks themselves don't want them, if their children want them, there are whole layers. But if the people themselves don't want to get rid of them, then it's hard. But things need to go into storage and dealt with later. We will not take them out of their hands.

Curtis Worcester:

So Kim, I have a general question for you, I guess. So, I just want to talk about cost here. So generally speaking, how much does using a move management service generally cost? And furthermore, how is that cost made up? Do you sit down and encompass a big quote just based on what you're working with or what you think you're working with, or is there hourly components? I know you talked about hiring movers. How does all of that work?

Kim Dorsky:

So at our company, we're hourly. And we have a non-conflict policy, meaning that we take no portion of any proceeds from anything that is sold or any services that we use. We decided that a long time ago. We do not want to be swayed by any kickback or any compensation. If people want to get rid of their things, then we will find the best outlet for those things to be sold in. High end antiques, there's a particular order that you need to go in with all different layers of what they're getting rid of.

Kim Dorsky:

It's super important that we go in the order starting with the people, the folks themselves and their family, then dropping down. If they have very fine antiques, we need to get them in front of the right audience, then down to a mid-level. So, there's a no conflict policy. There are outside costs, which are supplies that we use for packing, cleaners that we have in if we're processing hazardous waste, if we're hiring the movers themselves, all of these things are outside cost and were strictly labor.

Curtis Worcester:

Got you.

Kim Dorsky:

To prepare an estimate, when I go or someone in our company goes to a consultation, we're sizing up immediately. In a quick hour, when we do a walkthrough of the house, we can tell if we know the scope of which they're using our services, we can do an estimate. We know whether there's a lot of trash on the premises. We know whether the garage was an auto body shop and I have tons of hazardous waste.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah.

Kim Dorsky:

Whatever it is, we're able to come up with, okay, I think that we're going to need the following. We'll l ask whether they need cleaners for putting the house on the market or whatever. But we break it all down, provided we know exactly what they're going to use our services for.

Curtis Worcester:

Sure.

Kim Dorsky:

They can start with one day and see how it goes or they can say, you're on, full boat, you're doing everything.

Ben Smith:

Got you. Well, Kim, that thing is really helpful because I think just to know what are we getting in for here and just obviously get an estimate from you and kind of, well, here's what we see, and especially where I could see where maybe there's a family member that's passed away and the next generation has to come in, and they're trying to figure out all this, and they just look at this and go, this is way too much work for me to handle myself. To have a service and then be able to figure out the cost of what does this entail, it's really helpful.

Ben Smith:

I want to ask another question, though, to you, Kim, is it's not just the process of removing things from our homes but also, obviously, there's a lot of things in homes that have financial value. And you referenced this a little bit of that things have value and it's not just looking at this from we're just going to dispose of everything or we're going to put it into storage, but as it's being handed down from one generation to another here of, hey, we all just come to decide that the best thing to do is get some value out of it, and to use myself as an example here, my parents inherited from my grandfather an antique collection.

Ben Smith:

And when they got split up amongst my mother and her two sisters, basically they sold a little bit, they basically inherited the whole thing, which to me and my wife will look at this and go, hey, we see the tidal wave of antiques and we saw it just hit that house. And we can see the tidal wave coming to us here at some point is looking at this and going, "I'm not sure that we want the tidal wave to hit our house that way." And so I could see where that could be a conversation at some point of, hey, what do we do with all these things? We know they have value but we're not experts in these antiques.

Ben Smith:

This isn't our thing. We don't know what to do. So I guess my question here is how do you go through the process of helping sorting out what has value, what do you sell, consign or donate, but also how do you agree on what's an appropriate price? Because again, I don't know what I'm looking at here but if I'm going to inherit that, it's like, well, I can either inherit the good or I can inherit the value of that good that I'm inheriting. So, I guess, I want to know how do you go through that process and figure that out? Because, again, I'm being selfish here, I can see myself going through this and fast forward another maybe decade or two.

Kim Dorsky:

Okay. So first of all, we do not assign any value to anything. We identify the different levels. Right when we do the consultation, I can assess whether what level... Let's just say we're talking about antiques because those are more difficult than things that go to consignment. So antiques have clearly different levels. And, I guess, just from working in the business, you know what are super valuable antiques and those that are just middle of the rope. The ones that are stuffers are sometimes small collectibles. And I don't necessarily mean Hummels.

Kim Dorsky:

It's very funny. In this business, antiques have changed tremendously, just over the past even 10 years where I think that folks are really educated. Now when you hear big brown furniture, that it's not desirable, it's a hard sell for the folks that are still in the business, antique dealers, auction houses, it's a hard sell. When I'm looking at stuff, I know when it's exceptional. When things are exceptional, your brain in a level antique dealer that can represent has the proper audience to sell to a high level, meaning the audience is willing to bid sometimes in the tens, hundreds, thousands of dollars.

Kim Dorsky:

Most things fall into a mid-level. And so, we'll educate people when we are with them. I think that the key is educating our client of expectations. We do not candy coat things nor do the folks that we have in. So, when I will often say to one of our auction houses that comes in, this client is very interested in information about these things, talk to them about past sales, talk to them about what they're likely to realize in this piece, because people are thinking of a different mindset. This was my grandmother's china. She didn't use it. We've saved it. And the reality may be that that antique or auction house may not even take it in.

Kim Dorsky:

So, it's talking to folks about this. So when we're sorting a house, we are literally sorting beautiful antiques from hammers, from artwork, from just everything. And we're setting it aside and staging what an antique dealer should come in and look at. We're taking away the clear donations, we're leaving for review the things that should be seen and judged upon by antique dealers. Let's talk about consignment for just a few minutes. Consignment is totally separate.

Kim Dorsky:

I think what I'm talking about consignment can be separated into two things. There are antique shops that will sell consignment that still falls into the antique furniture or collectibles category. Consignment of furniture that's more modern, that goes into a consignment shop. And generally, they're taking in more modern things, more modern couches, things that are not antique, a more modern table, a glass table. Just as I described, it's a more modern piece.

Kim Dorsky:

And the distinction is that it's again putting it in the right setting. People walking into a consignment shop expect to see that. They don't expect to see grandma's antiques and the china. So it's separating and putting in front of the audience that needs to see at auction houses and antiques need to go one place, more modern things need to go another. And that's how they're going to be sold to get the most money for the family or the individuals.

Ben Smith:

Got you. So quick follow up there, Kim, in terms of, obviously, you just described really well the process of separating out the buckets as high levels and mid-levels, and maybe the more common levels there of our things. But obviously, once you've staged it and there's agreement from yourself in the client there of what to do with it, how do you really communicate to your clients to keep them in a loop of what's happening with their goods?

Ben Smith:

And so I'm thinking about, as you said, you got three different levels and there might be different timeframes to sell those things or to maybe get as much value as you can out of them, how do you keep people in loop because I could see where there's things that might have to happen from a certain timeline of, hey, this house is on the market where it's going to sell? And right now, obviously, we're summer 2021 year, and houses are selling very quickly but maybe the timeframe of selling some of our other assets might not move on that same timeframe. So how to keep people in loop here of where they are in that process and how long things take to work through?

Kim Dorsky:

So when selling through an auction house, all of these things are direct contracts with the client. So it is set up a check be sent directly to the client. So we step out of that, because we take no portion of any proceeds. When an auction house comes to the house, they write up an inventory of what they're taking, and then it usually is a pretty quick turnaround for an auction house. So, the client will know that it's going to be in the July 30th sale. And so, they are issued a check within two weeks after that. It's pretty quick.

Kim Dorsky:

If things go to consignment, then the client is actually sent an email or if the client doesn't use email, it can go through us. We have a roster of what is sold, and I can go online and look at any time their roster to see what has been sold. Again, the client can follow that. There'll be given a password. They can contact the owner of the consignment shops and have a chat sent to them at any time. So, they feel like they're in control. We rarely have any questions. So it's more of a direct relationship with them, unless it needs to go through our email because they don't communicate by email. Yeah.

Ben Smith:

Got you.

Abby Doody:

So, we touched on this in the open, but a lot of our clients are going to smaller houses, condos, assisted living, and this might involve selling their home that they're in right now, right?

Kim Dorsky:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Abby Doody:

So how do you help with the selling process, especially in a market like Ben alluded to where things are selling in just a matter of days in a lot of cases?

Kim Dorsky:

So that is a good question. This morning, I went and quickly staged the house. And staging is a tough one. For folks that are older, even like my parents that just moved, staging is a scary word because you feel like you're losing control. People might come in and for my mother, we suggested it, too, "Mom, we really should strip the wallpaper." And to maximize the value of someone showing their property, we will make suggestions for things like that. But basically, it's a person's decision. We are trained on what one suggests and what is actually going to be done are two totally different things.

Kim Dorsky:

So, basically, the basic staging thing is to try and depersonalize the house. Okay. And less is more. So, taking things down that distract buyers going in. And when we explained that to folks, they understand it, they get it. We want to show the attributes of the house. And when I explain that why we want to take something down to have them focus on either an architectural element of the house or have them look out the windows to the beautiful backyard and gardens or the water instead of all their family photos in front, people understand.

Kim Dorsky:

And also, one thing that resonates with them is that if they're keeping the things, and we do have to go through that process of deciding, do you want to keep these things or do you want to part with them? But they understand that the things that they're keeping are only going away for a little bit of time and they will all come out again. So, it seems to help when we say that we're pre-packing. So they're keeping it, we're getting them one step closer. So the pre-packing is an important term and they understand. And also afterwards, it's kind of funny how many people just say, "God, I like it so much, I should probably stay."

Kim Dorsky:

So, it's interesting. I wish someone would do it with my house. For so many years, people just walk by their things in their house, and they don't notice because it's always been there and everything comes into a house and nothing goes. It's kind of interesting. And you make room for every special photo that someone gave you because it's meaningful to you but you also want them to see that you haven't. But then when you start to eliminate things, number one, people think it looks better but they also can't remember what was actually there. So, it's kind of out of sight, out of mind, so yeah.

Curtis Worcester:

I really like that, Kim. And I want to keep going on this conversation but I want to look at the opposite side or the other end of this. And that's the move in process. So, I guess, how can you help someone with the move in process? You just discussed how you help them sell their house but, obviously, they're going somewhere. So, can you just talk about that move in process and how you can help?

Kim Dorsky:

Absolutely. I'm going to back up one second on that, because one thing that I think is key is we take photos of people's furniture when they are moving into a new place. So the furniture that they select to go with them, we take a picture and I actually print out an old picture, old-fashioned picture and it has dimensions on it. And we go over to their new place and place the furniture with them. So number one, they're in the process. They're making the decisions. We're obviously saying, I'm not so sure that that's going to fit, and guiding them. But then it also highlights if they have too much, or might highlight opportunities where they can bring another favorite piece.

Kim Dorsky:

So, it starts really there. And then it's targeted, then the move happens with the movers. The movers go in and all the pictures are around, so they can see where they are. And then the hustling of our team begins. I just did one yesterday. The movers leave and we literally jumped into high gear. The client is sometimes there and sometimes they're not there.

Kim Dorsky:

If they are there, we usually exhaust them not by them physically necessarily helping but by them watching us where we're putting everything away in the kitchen. We're thinking logically. We're putting all the clothes away. We are shifting the bed over six inches and balancing the room and we're executing everything that we have talked through in our placement of things and we're bringing it all together for them in a very short time. So when they walk in, like our client did yesterday, she literally couldn't believe it. She was so worried that, number one, things won't fit. But then to walk in with the lights on and the bed made and all of her clothes organized and hung up almost to a tee, it's funny, like people say, "I just don't even want to come in and mess things up."

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah.

Kim Dorsky:

Because everything is just in its place with the family photos up and arranged. Obviously not everything, the artwork and heavy things were not hung but that part they like, we like to have them help with us. So the couch, we want to make sure that the furniture is in the right place before we start hanging the artwork. That's pretty important. And the decor, that's what makes a house feel like their home. We've decided what is going with them through the process. And now it's how do they want to have it all come together to make it feel like home. We have taken pictures of let's say they have a hutch or a quarter cupboard or even I had a huge wall of family photos, we take pictures of it so that it can be recreated.

Kim Dorsky:

We feel like people have made their home that we're moving out of they've spent years figuring out what goes with what and putting things together. And we do our best to recreate that. I always say that we try and have them think of it as the new home is almost like an extension or a wing of their home that they haven't been in. It looks like their home exactly but it's almost like a dream like it's all my stuff and it's all the same but it's all arranged in a different space. And it looks like home but I know the walls are different.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah.

Kim Dorsky:

So yeah. I mean, that is really what our goal is. And that's what we do into their settling process.

Curtis Worcester:

I'll say, first off, that all sounds amazing. Basically, you're doing the hard stuff for them. And that's awesome. I do have a quick follow-up, and that's to what point does location come into play here? So say I hire you and I'm in Bangor and I'm moving to Florida. I mean, you might be, maybe you will travel and build that into the price. But is that something where you find people similar to yourself and that's considered outside cost at that point? Can you just go down that road for a minute?

Kim Dorsky:

So, we have worked in close proximity, meaning New York. We've run jobs completely out of state coming into Maine or people going out and we'll follow them. But when it gets a little bit too far away, then I do turn to NASMM and look up on their website and look at the services but I scrutinize them. I know our client. I know what they need. And so, I'll find someone and I will call and say, do you do this sort of thing, because here's the thing with this client. Because I want them well taken care of, their needs need to be met to the level of which we're handing off to someone. And I just hope that they're as well taken care of, I guess. But that's how we rely on someone helping out of state.

Curtis Worcester:

Got you.

Kim Dorsky:

By trying interviewing someone that's like us.

Ben Smith:

Got you. So Kim, I want to ask on another perspective here is so obviously if someone's downsizing over time as we're going through aging process, we get that, but what about we have enough situations, obviously we're working with people's financial accounts is at some point there's the handing of the baton. As maybe someone's aging, they're diminishing mental capacity or they're not able to do certain things. So they have a financial power of attorney or their children or relatives are stepping into a role for them, especially later in retirement.

Ben Smith:

So can you talk a little bit about that process where you're engaging with maybe that next generation or the person that's speaking on behalf of the person that we're downsizing for? But again, I guess my tricky part here of this is how do you build harmony in that relationship where there might be different goals, there might be different attitudes towards things as kind of things are being engaged or they're working with them. But you also want to accomplish helping with the downsize but also getting them in harmony as well. Can you talk about what you've encountered there?

Kim Dorsky:

Well, that it can be tough. It all depends whether the client is able to make decisions for themselves. Sometimes it's hard for us if you're speaking to two different people that have completely different opinions. For example, another child may think that mom needs X, Y, and Z and she's thinking the complete opposite. So, we need to blend those and we need to blend them carefully. Again, talking it through with the elder child that it seems as though your parents or your mom or your dad wants X, Y, and Z, what are your thoughts on that because I hear you saying something completely different.

Kim Dorsky:

So generally, it does work out. We are navigating a fine line. I have had to say to folks sometimes that I don't work for the elder child, I work for your mom, and your mother is my primary focus. And then again, if someone's not able to make decisions, I'm working with someone trusted. And I have to assume that they have someone's best interest at heart and that they're making sound decisions for that person. But if I think that they're really not, I am going to go up again and say, this is why I don't think, or we really have some concerns about let's just say tripping hazards. Okay?

Kim Dorsky:

Someone may want way too much stuff to them. And maybe it's because the elder child doesn't want to let go of things, doesn't want it to be sold, wants it to stay with her and it's too crowded. And we will have to step in and say, it's too much, it's too much. We're going to need to figure out either a storage facility within the retirement community. We can't have all this stuff. So, our focus is our client and making them feel happy and secure in their new place, safe in their new place. And we're weaving in whoever we might be taking directives from.

Abby Doody:

Interesting. So just continuing that line of thinking, oftentimes, I'm sure kids or relatives may not be in the same state to physically assist with some of us. So how can relatives be engaged in the process if they can't physically be there to be a part of it?

Kim Dorsky:

Well, again, technology is awesome.

Abby Doody:

Yes.

Kim Dorsky:

We do FaceTiming with kids out of state. We can show the whole house. We can say, "Are these the teacups you're talking about?" or whatever it is and talk through. We can have sorting sessions with the kids to be part of it. We can do the furniture placement. I take videos and send them to family members. This is your mom's new place. Your dad, this is his new office setup, whatever it is to fold them in. A lot of times it has to do with things that are being gotten rid of, honestly. Once they know that someone is taking care of their parent and listening to their needs in a new space and that we're going to handle that part, it comes down to what's happening to the stuff and how do we manage that.

Kim Dorsky:

And we fold them in because, again, we don't honestly care what someone keeps or gets rid of. Whether we're sending it across the country to family members, we always want family to keep as much as they want. And we'll solve how to get it to them, long distance, whatever we need to do. So it's generally with the kids, what about the stuff. And then when we go through layers of that in spreadsheets and sending out pictures, and we've even done documents with a program called FairSplit where you upload pictures and family are able to see all the different items and choose. So we navigate it. And with the parents, they have certain things that they promised the kids are wanting. But it's mostly about the stuff. And technology is awesome that way.

Curtis Worcester:

That's great. So Kim, to this point, we've had a really great conversation about the process, some barriers, really the how when we go into this downsizing move management service. I want to look at it from a different perspective and hear your advice on the when. So I'd love to hear you just talk about what advice you would give people as to when they should start thinking about downsizing.

Kim Dorsky:

My biggest advice is to do it proactively, because it's hard enough but it's really difficult if there has been some sort of episode that is prompting an immediate need to do this, emotions are running high as it is. And then you add in the layer of stress for moving and making decisions on every single darn thing that you have collected in your life. Start chipping away and take the attic, take the basement, take the garage, take any closet, and just start doing it.

Kim Dorsky:

And if you've given yourself some time, then you do have time to revisit and talk through the memories of all these different things you've decided to keep and thoughtfully saying to your kids, "I have all your camp letters or I have all your yearbooks. Do you want them?" Instead of it all of a sudden becoming a terribly stressful experience, you can chip away at it when your kids come for a holiday. And they're all there, you can say, "We have this all arranged for you."

Kim Dorsky:

We have gone into homes and sorted an entire attic or wherever they want to proactively start. And I'll assess it. I'll go in and say, "Well, it seems as though the attic has the storage of a lifetime. Let's sort it, separate it by your four children. When they come for Thanksgiving, they can go up there, they can sit down. They're going to have a lot of fun. They're probably not going to get rid of anything but at least it becomes theirs to make the decision, they can take it with them."

Kim Dorsky:

So it's all proactive. It's all positive. And that's the most important thing that I can say is to be proactive. Yeah. We have had very difficult situations where someone has fallen down, broken a hip, and they have to move, situation where it was a huge snowstorm, the movers actually called and said they couldn't come. And I said to them, they had to go. I mean, it's that sort of level of stress that they have to be out of the house.

Kim Dorsky:

They're coming home from rehab. They can't go home to their house. That is a terrible situation to be in. So, if you can bite the bullet. And then the flip side of it is, and my parents are perfect examples, saying that they should have done it a long time ago. It's allowed them to accomplish the goals that they talked about for years, but now they're living it where it is a simpler lifestyle, they are able to turn key, leave, and do whatever they want. So people rarely have regrets, I would say, about doing it.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah.

Kim Dorsky:

So yeah, yeah.

Curtis Worcester:

That's great advice there. So we do have one final question for you, a completely different question. So, you joined us today on the Retirement Success in Maine podcast. A question that we love to ask all of our guests is what is your personal definition of retirement success?

Kim Dorsky:

I would say that any one, their success would be is if they're doing what they really want to do. If you outline what is it that you want to do, do you want to travel, do you want to have more time with your grandchildren, whatever it is, figure out what's going to allow you to accomplish that. And don't wait too long because there are always reasons not to. But within your means, whatever that is, try and figure it out and do it. Because you never know when something is going to happen and your retirement dreams are cut short.

Curtis Worcester:

Sure.

Kim Dorsky:

So, do it proactively. Start living your life instead of thinking about it and bogged down by mowing the lawn and all the things that I should go do. But, I mean, that's what I think success is, being happy with being able to live the way you want to live. And if that is mowing your lawn, then awesome. And raking the roof.

Ben Smith:

Right, right.

Kim Dorsky:

Right, right. Plowing the driveway and cranking up the snow blower. But if you can simplify your life, go for it, because there's a lot of living to do out there.

Ben Smith:

Kim, what a great answer, because I know from the theme of the show that we've done here multiple times, I think one of the things that we've tried to say is like, well, let's try to unlock what that success is for you and try to visualize what it is. But I will say I appreciate you coming on today because this is I think a really large hurdle and barrier for people of, hey, what do I do with my stuff? And that might be, hey, my kids or my grandkids are out of town. But I can never address what I'm going to do with my stuff. And so, because of that, I can't spend time with the people I love the most in this world.

Ben Smith:

So, all of those things, maybe that's just one example but I think this is a really important conversation to have today. I think this fits wonderfully in with our episodes that we have with this show and I think your service is well needed. And I really appreciate your explanation of everything you do, because I can see where you have a large table of clients that are extremely happy with what you're doing for them on a daily basis. So thank you so much for coming on the Retirement Success in Maine podcast.

Kim Dorsky:

Thanks.

Ben Smith:

I really appreciate your time. And thanks for everything you do.

Kim Dorsky:

Thank you very much.

Ben Smith:

All right. Take care.

Kim Dorsky:

You too.

Ben Smith:

I thought Kim Dorsky did a really good job today, again, talking about rightsizing your stuff. I know sometimes downsizing is the wrong term to use. Maybe it's upsizing, who knows. But yeah, rightsizing your stuff as we age is the episode today. And again, I think Kim with her business SimplySized Home was something I'd never heard of, right?

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah.

Ben Smith:

I had heard of these moving companies, of course, but moving managers is something that I just had not had any exposure to whatsoever. So, good to know that we have that service in Maine and kind of where they fit and all that, but I think we learned a lot from Kim and what her experiences have been and what she's seen over the years. But love to get to all of our takes on what we learned from Kim today. So I'll start with Curtis and maybe lead off here of what you learned from Kim's chat with us today.

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah. I think a piece that really stuck out to me was in the conversation we had about barriers and overcoming barriers. I think it's a natural thing that comes up, whether it's physical or psychological, when you're going through this process. And I think a example of almost conflict resolution that she brought up was say the kids just want to come in and get everything done, they want to sell everything, move on, but mom and dad will be heartbroken if they just see all their stuff sold right away.

Curtis Worcester:

And Kim, I think she brought up using something like a storage unit. It helps you accomplish the goal in the near term of getting stuff out of the way so that mom and dad can downsize or move. But you don't have to have that hard decision or encounter of selling everything right away. And if it's 10 years down the road and say mom and dad pass or whatnot, and then the kids can get back together and accomplish what they want to accomplish. But it was a really good way to I guess almost defer difficult situations while still accomplishing the goal of this move. So I thought that was really interesting.

Ben Smith:

Yeah. And again, I know that we referenced a lot with AmyK Hutchens but almost like finding middle grounds, right?

Curtis Worcester:

Right.

Ben Smith:

And I think that's really important to do. And I think what Kim was offering there was a nice little tidbit of, again, that some of us might not have thought of paying money for a storage unit, how much money is that going to cost to do, think about that. And maybe that is a very worthwhile thing to do there is to put certain valuables or certain meaningful items in a storage unit to still get things done. So I thought that was a really good one there. Abby, from what you heard today, what was something that you took away from Kim's chat with us?

Abby Doody:

Yeah. I thought it was really interesting when she talked about being proactive with going through some of your stuff. I know from personal experience, it's a lot easier to do this before something emotionally big happens or something drastic happens and you're trying to get it done really quickly. It's much better to start early and people can enjoy the experience a little more. And so I thought her advice was just really great that being as proactive as you can about this really generally will lead to a better outcome.

Ben Smith:

Yeah. And I think it's tough, too, as you said, Abby, is the grieving process. So say, when someone passes and having to do this that maybe represent more grieving of, hey, you're bringing back all these memories up as you're going through your grieving process of if you were say the child doing it for a parent, that might be a more difficult thing to do, and what do you take and what's appropriate value, all of that. So again, being a little more objective, wherever you can, maybe leads to some better results. So I think you're absolutely right there.

Ben Smith:

And speaking of the financial and I think that was something that I thought it was interesting what she said about sorting these into different piles is here's the high value which might mean auction houses, here's maybe the middle value where we can find maybe intermediaries or dealers or brokers, or here's the low value stuff and maybe we can consign or maybe we can donate. So things like that I thought was really helpful and that also Kim already had that network already built, right?

Curtis Worcester:

Yeah.

Ben Smith:

And for us to go through and go, look, I don't know brokerage houses, I don't know who to talk to, and which ones are good and which ones are and where do you go for certain items, I think that was an interesting piece there of figuring out how to sort, figuring out how to put value on it. But again, we all have our own emotional values and things outside of financial. So someone that comes in as a third party and figure out what's the financial realm, I think, is very helpful, too.

Ben Smith:

Well, I want to thank you all for listening to our show today. We will have a little bit more links to Kim and her business and in that National Association of Senior and Specialty Move Managers, NASMM. So we'll have that link there. We do understand we have enough listenership outside the state of Maine that people might go, hey, I'm in Arizona, I'm in Florida, I'm in Chicago, whatever, you can check out their website and you can find that move manager that's maybe closer to you or vice versa. Maybe you're moving outside of the state of Maine and you need someone to help for your destination when you get there.

Ben Smith:

So I think that was a really great reference there that Kim was saying even to herself from the destination side or the move away side that they can help there, too. So we'll have more resources there. If you go to blog.guidance.pointllc.com/48, we're episode 48. So you can go to our blog, go to that episode, and you can find some more resources there. Always appreciate your listenership. Appreciate you tuning in today. Again, a neat little topic that we hadn't seen explored much in the marketplace. So hopefully you found some utility out of it, and we'll catch you next time.