The Retirement Success in Maine Podcast Ep 124: How to Be a Trusted Adult: Showing Up for Today’s Kids Without Taking Over

 

 

Transcript:

Intro (00:01):

Do you struggle with what it means to be successful in your retirement? Trust us. You're not alone. Welcome to the Retirement Success in Maine podcast. Here you'll go in depth with Guidance Point advisors investment consultants to hear stories about how retirees in Maine are navigating a successful retirement. Get insight into the inevitable challenges of aging and define what a successful retirement looks like.

Ben Smith (00:26):

So when we think about retirement, we often picture freedom, free time, fewer responsibilities, and maybe a little distance from the chaos of parenting. But what if retirement also comes with a new kind of responsibility, one that can change lives? Welcome back to the Retirement Success in Maine podcast, where we explore the meaningful, sometimes surprising ways that retirees can live well, give back and stay connected. I'm Ben Smith, joined as always by the responsible adult to my free-range grandkid, my co-host, Curtis Whister. Curtis, how's it going today?

Curtis Worcester (00:59):

It's going well. I'm not sure I'm the responsible one here in this scenario, but I'll take it. But yeah, just really, really looking forward to today's show, Ben. It's one I think that hits close to home for a lot of us. And I think a lot of us realize that even if our own kids are maybe grown and out of the house, that we can still play a major role in shaping the lives of the next generation.

Ben Smith (01:21):

Exactly. Whether you're a grandparent, mentor, neighbor, volunteer, you're likely someone's trusted adult, but what does that really mean? What makes a child or teen actually trust you, rely on you and want to be around you?

Curtis Worcester (01:34):

Yeah, that kind of lead in, Ben, is exactly why we invited our guests back to our show today. So our guest today is Chris McLaughlin, who you may know from being on our show a couple other times, but he's been a part of our family here at the Retirement Success and Made Podcast for many years at this point. So his first episode with us was all the way back in episode 19 where we talked about building better relationships with our grandkids. And Chris joined us again in episode 42, which was also now a long time ago, where we explored the aging experience for LGBTQ+ Mainers. So bringing with Chris, so he brings 30 years of experience as a licensed clinical social worker, educator, mentor, and statewide advocate. Chris has worked in treatment foster care, residential treatment facilities, public schools, psychiatric hospitals, some private practice work and pretty much everywhere in between.

(02:34):

Chris is also adjunct professor at five universities in the state of Maine, which is just ... I got to stop and think about that for a second, but that's a lot of work there. And he also currently serves on the Maine Children's Alliance Board, Diversity Hiring Coalition and does some work with his local school committee. Chris has also been nationally recognized for his leadership in youth suicide prevention, honored for his work with LGBTQ+ youth named Healthcare Social Worker of the Year in the state of Maine. And just because that's clearly not enough to be doing, he is currently pursuing his Doctorate of Social Work degree at the University of New England. So I think my short version is Chris knows a thing or two about what kids need in today's world and how adults can help show up for them in the right way. So with that incredible background, please join me in welcoming back Chris McLaughlin to the Retirement Success in Maine podcast.

(03:31):

Chris, thanks so much for coming on again.

Chris McLaughlin (03:33):

My pleasure. Hi, Curtis. Hi, Ben. Nice to be with you again.

Ben Smith (03:37):

Likewise, Chris. Thanks for coming on the show. And again, we're just a big fan of yours and how passionate you are for all the things you do, which obviously shows in the resume that Curtis read off there. So if there's anybody that we're going to have the conversation with about showing up for a youth, I think it's you. So appreciate you joining us today and leading into the show for us.

Chris McLaughlin (04:00):

Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm flattered to keep having me come back.

Ben Smith (04:04):

Yeah. So Chris, I want to get into it because I know obviously we always start with the background of you and I think folks can check out other two episodes and we encourage them to do so if they want to explore more of it. But there's a lot to unpack in terms of being a trusted adult. And I think it's really important to start with something simple but powerful. And the question is in your view, what is a trusted adult and what makes a young person choose someone as their safe space?

Chris McLaughlin (04:33):

Yeah, that's got to be the place we start, I think. I think I often keep coming back to trust being earned and trust doesn't come automatically with the title just because you're parent, grandparent, teacher, neighbor, bus driver, that doesn't mean that respect and trust are automatic. And so especially with youth today, it's an ongoing and honestly quite intentional process to be that person to be that one. And times are different from when we maybe head those folks around us. But I think the rules, the playbook honestly hasn't changed that much. It's about curiosity, being genuine, being authentic and consistent. And these are going to be themes that I feel like we're going to probably talk a lot about over the next hour or so. And I'll keep coming back to that, that sense of showing up, showing up as a curious and consistent and genuine presence in a young person's life and to not take for granted that just because I'm this young person's blank their parent, grandparent, uncle, that respect and trust are automatically going to be part of that equation.

Ben Smith (05:54):

Chris, I want to just add to that because again, big Ted Lasso fans, I think we all are and the key scene, the dart scene and it's the ex- husband there and he's going to take Ted Lasso to town and show him darts and everything. And then he kind of shows them, well, I'm actually left-handed, not right-handed. And if you would ask the question, if you've been curious and the whole curious, not judgmental. And I think that was an interesting dichotomy of that judgment maybe is the opposite of curiosity. And I think what you just were pointing out is showing up and being consistent, but being curious instead of being showing up and all those things we can be, but then you're being judgmental instead of being curious maybe is an erosion of trust there too.

Chris McLaughlin (06:42):

100%. And yes, Ted Lasso did a lot of things right. Curtis is kind of rocking the Ted look. I

Curtis Worcester (06:48):

Love that. I know. I know. I

Chris McLaughlin (06:49):

Love that. I think that also speaks to how does judgment get communicated? And so certainly there's judgment that can come through in the words we're using and we can perceive judgment nonverbally and through maybe the tone or the quality of what's being said and the looks. And kids just like us can be really perceptive to that tone of judgment. So just because I'm saying, no, I'm not judging you, but I am somebody that communicates everything here. As a clinical social worker, I've had to work for decades at managing what this part of my face is doing. And if the words and the face and the tone aren't congruent, that can be just as disruptive to trust as well.

Curtis Worcester (07:44):

Yeah, that's a really good point you bring up. And as you were saying that, I think I'm also guilty of my facial reactions at times to reacting to something in real time probably are my tell on what I really think. I think it's probably a lot of people. So I appreciate that. I want to keep going, Chris, and not to start off our show with talking about maybe what people are doing wrong or mistaking, but I think a common theme is a lot of retirees that Ben and I talk to in our day-to-day, they want to help kids. They want to be there for the children in their lives, whether it's their grandkids or the neighborhood kids or the kids at their church or at a school. We all know the population there, but sometimes I think good intentions can maybe come across a little overbearing or even outdated if there's a big age gap there to just maybe talk about what are some common mistakes that you see adults make that are unintentionally actually pushing the kids away from them instead of achieving that goal of being there.

Chris McLaughlin (08:46):

I think you really highlighted a keyword there, the unintentional piece. And so relationships take work regardless of what that relationship is. Some of us, it might come a little easier than others, but regardless, relationships take work

(09:05):

And then take investment of time and resources. So I actually think it's a great place to start to name where some of those more common pitfalls may exist so that as we are building intention about showing up and being that person, we can do some maybe retrospective and introspective, where have I maybe inadvertently misstepped? And it starts with good intention and then it starts with planning and practice and again, consistency. So the first thing, as you were saying that, Curtis, the first thing that came to mind is that comparison culture of back in my day or when I was your age, that stuff that I've now even heard myself saying to young people in my life and I cringe when I hear it come out of my mouth because as soon as we start to put that comparison, judgment can sneak in,

(10:04):

I had it worse/better than you can sneak in and it signals to that young person, "You're not hearing me, you are thinking about you. " And so I think that's a real common comeby it rightly misstep that we can make. Another one that comes to mind, and I've got friends that do this probably now a little tongue in cheek, is that trying to be hip and trendy and cool and listening to the music or watching the TikToks or doing the things that you think young people are doing in an attempt to speak their language. And young people see through this, it is incredibly easy to know that this adult is playing a part, trying to fit in, trying to be cool. And by definition, that is cringe. That is not cool. That is absolute cringe. And so there's a way to be curious without needing to try to be fake or pretend.

(11:09):

And it actually is maybe more conducive to the conversation to not get it, to have the young person explain this to me instead of trying to be the expert in that pop culture moment.

Curtis Worcester (11:24):

Yeah. No, that's great. That's great examples

Ben Smith (11:26):

There. And Chris, what I hear you say is really being authentic is a very important way is not trying to be that artificial, "I'm not 12, and it's tough for me to be 12 right now in this day and age. And why try to start throwing out six sevens and throwing my hands back and forth?" It's like we're not there. We're not there. Clip it right there. Yeah.

Chris McLaughlin (11:50):

Kids want the adults around them to be real, not relevant. You don't need to be relevant to be real.

Ben Smith (11:57):

And again, I think that's all really awesome stuff. And I obviously want to keep going because there's a lot we want to cover, but you've obviously worked with kids for decades. So I'd love to hear from your perspective what you think has changed for today's youth in terms of pressure, social challenges, maybe mental health that makes the need for trusted adults today even more urgent than maybe before.

Chris McLaughlin (12:22):

Yeah, it's a great question and I talk about this all the time and it's constantly changing too. That comparison culture piece is really pervasive. It exists in all forms including social media. And so we know that young people aren't scrolling Facebook, they're scrolling TikTok, they're scrolling reels, Instagram, and they are absorbing micro moments of comparison culture in a way that we probably can't even fathom. And it is a constant window into everybody else's forced fake realities. And for young people, that division of what's fact or fiction doesn't exist. And so comparison culture shows up and even in schools, we know you both doing what you do probably know this better than most. The divisions between the heaven have nots are growing by leaps and bounds year after year. And that is something that is just so incredibly front and center when you're in person with folks and who's wearing what for sneakers and backpacks and sunglasses and all the other accessories and the tech, that division of who has it and who doesn't is incredibly noticeable as well.

(13:49):

And so that adds to that pressure to perform and pressure to be in crowd. I talk a lot too about community and belonging. That's a big part of my work. I think because of a lot of these other influences, social media, comparison, culture, heaven have not, I think today's kids are struggling to find their place and where they belong and who their community truly is. I think that feeds some of the social media stuff. Social media, the internet is really great at giving us the illusion of our community, who our people are. And there's really no sense, true sense of belonging there, but for that fleeting moment while I'm scrolling, I can try to trick myself into believing I fit in. That's part of the mental health stuff, Ben, of we know the consequences of isolation and loneliness and not belonging and what that does to humans and our mental health and wellness.

(14:55):

We've already talked about I think shifts in what authority means, what trust means. It's not automatic, it's not assumed with the role anymore. And so that's a piece that I think is changing. The final thing I guess I'll say is just the intensity of the pressure. It is literally everywhere in a way that I don't even think I can compare the pressure of being a kid in the '80s and early '90s has anything on what it means to be a kid today. That pressure is all encompassing. Yeah.

Ben Smith (15:33):

I just want to throw an example at you, Chris, just because I think what you said is really important. And I was a kiddo at Central High School and coming from and 350 kids, pretty small high school and played basketball. There's three sports offered. It was like soccer and basketball and baseball and you kind of fit into one of those three groups and that was it. Today it feels like, which is great that we're celebrating Cooper Flag as this local guy that made it and he's done really well. And I think we all celebrate him a lot and I think that's a fantastic success story that we want to also root for him. But to your point about pressure I think on kids, I think it has escalated the pressure that kids need to be maybe living up to that success story a litle bit more.

(16:26):

And I just see it where even my own kiddo, he saw the story, wanted to be like it, didn't make the team, doesn't make the ball team. And all of a sudden now there's kids on the ball team that go, "Well, you're not one of us. Caden, you got cut." And now he's like, "I don't belong here. I thought I was part of this and identity became an issue and then there was a little bullying involved." And

(16:52):

So just I want to raise that because the intensity of what he experienced felt way more intense than anything me or my wife Kara experienced as participating in youth sports at sixth grade. I'm not talking eighth grade or senior year of high school, we're talking starting out.

Chris McLaughlin (17:12):

Yeah, that's a great example. And not being an athlete would never, and nobody would ever put my name in athletic anything in the same sentence. That was my brother in and out. I was the band nerd, but I see it and this pressure around sports and it's a both and. We know the benefits of young people participating in sports from a health, like physical health as well as belonging, mental health, being part of the team, social skills, community, all of that. And there's that pressure piece. And I am struck with the bar, whether it's age or expectation, how that is shifting year after year. And we now have travel teams with seven and eight-year-olds going all over the state with these club sports and weekends are just packed with game stuff and it's a both and. It's super important, lots of benefits and there's this other side to it and the performance piece, the heaven have not piece to participate in sports, especially not at the high school level or where maybe budgets are a bit more robust, this is all out of pocket or all fundraising.

(18:35):

Yeah, sure is. It's wild. And that also adds that line of you can or you can't.

(18:44):

And for those kids who can't, their athletic ability or passion or interests no longer become relevant. It's the ability to buy the stuff to do the things.

Curtis Worcester (18:54):

Yeah, that was an important conversation and it's real. I think we all see it every day and specifically the sport angle. Yeah, it's just, sorry, you guys are making me think about now I have a young baby at home and I'm like, "Man, this is, what are we getting ready for here?"

Chris McLaughlin (19:10):

Yeah, start putting that money away, Curtis.

Curtis Worcester (19:14):

Exactly, exactly. Chris, I do want to keep going through our conversation here. So I'm a big scenario, real example kind of person on this show. So just something Ben and I see. And so a situation I think that a lot of people might face listening. So we have a grandchild and the reaction is this grandchild is maybe pulling away from us a little bit. It's tough to communicate right there, not necessarily rude and hurtful or anything, just a quiet kid, let's say. The reaction we hear a lot from the grandparent is they spend more time on their phone than they do talking to us. I know that's probably a bigger conversation we could have, but in this sake, I guess the question I have for you, Chris, how can we start building that trust with, in this case, let's say a grandchild who just seems quiet and to themselves without that overbearing, "I'm forcing connection upon you and making you hang out with grandpa this weekend." Is there a line there that we can ease into that?

Chris McLaughlin (20:20):

Yeah, absolutely. One of my favorite mantras in this work is presence is power. And so you can be connecting in the proximity without necessarily needing to force conversation or activity. And so we know that oftentimes when we chase, it increases the likelihood of the other person running away and moving and wanting more distance. It feels overbearing and it adds pressure. And as we just were talking about, these kids don't need more pressure. These kids don't need more expectations. And so I love the idea of, and I can visualize that scenario, Curtis, of kids on a tablet or iPhone or doing what they're doing and grandparent just sits on the couch next to them and reads their book or paper or starts scrolling TV. That presence is so powerful and presence without pressure is even more powerful. And so what does that kid learn? That kid learns they don't have to perform, they don't need to be or do something that they're not ready or able to do in that moment and that they can experience connection through that proximity without having any expectation placed on it.

(21:46):

I think that says a lot. That communicates a lot.

(21:50):

As soon as you start trying to tug that kid away, that first conversation we had that is laced with judgment. I have something better that you should be doing than what you're doing now.

Curtis Worcester (22:02):

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just thinking through that scenario, Chris, of let's say the kid's on the couch with the iPad and grandpa's reading the paper, whatever it is, I think, and I have no research to back this up. I'm just playing the situation in my head. I bet you'd find that there's moments then when organically the kid just looks up and chats or says, "Hey, did you see this? " Or, "Here's something that grandpa's watching on TV and the kid here." I think you would probably find more natural conversation there anyway over time. I like

Chris McLaughlin (22:32):

That. I think so too. And I think it also provides some opportunity for grandpa to say, "What you're doing over there?" Or when the noise sound or the kid starts to laugh because they're scrolling the YouTubes. So funny. "Hey bud, show me. I want to see that too."

Curtis Worcester (22:51):

Next thing you know, you got grants doing TikTok dances with the kiddo and we're all hanging out.

Chris McLaughlin (22:57):

And there's connection right there. Absolutely.

Ben Smith (23:01):

Back to the curious theme, I like that.

(23:04):

I want to go up a level. So let's talk about maybe adult children. So I'm of a retiree age, I have adult children. And again, we're talking about intensity of pressure. Also, I think there's an intensity pressure on today's working professional that they're having to do more and more of their careers, they have to be more efficient, they have to be more effective and they have to do less with more a lot working long hours or balancing things. Their kiddos have more pressure on them. So sometimes maybe you might have help. You might have a grandparent that steps in with the grandkids and because the working parents are busy in those careers, but now maybe that grandparent is rust right into the middle of parenting decisions. So how do we balance this? How do we stay supportive here? We want to help. We want to be beneficial to the relationship, but we want to do it without stepping on toes of, I'm not the third parent here so I need to be respectful and mindful of that.

(24:03):

How would you counsel someone, Chris, to think about that relationship?

Chris McLaughlin (24:09):

Yeah. Here's my favorite part about working with humans. The best practices, whether you're seven, 17, 47, or 87, don't change a whole lot. And so there's some of these universal truths about how to be trusted, how to not overstep, how to respect lanes that are the same. Don't chase, don't judge presence is power, stay curious, don't compare. You remember I would've never let you get away with that. No, it's laced with judgment again. And so everything we've been talking about apply for those adult kids that seniors, retirees are now maybe supporting. And that idea of lanes I think is an important one. We've had these conversations before around transparency and really planning the conversations in advance. And so working adult to adult is you can have that conversation in advance. "Hey, mom, dad, what's your policy on screen time?

(25:17):

What's

(25:17):

Your policy on homework? What's your policy on snacks? How can I respect the rules of your household? Is it okay if I have a little fun grandma, grandpa moment and I've got the candy drawer? I mean, this is something my mom insisted on, the candy drawer. She was not going to get ... We weren't allowed candy drawers when we were kids, but as a grandma, she wanted the fun candy drawer and that was something she wanted to not have to ask permission for or certainly not seek forgiveness afterwards. And so I think just having that upfront conversation that's transparent is really essential. I love Ben, you named it, today's parents are also under incredible pressure financial and otherwise. And so we need that whole village to support parenting these days. It is not easy and it's not getting any easier. So engaging the village means I've also got to humble myself a little bit and be willing to compromise.

(26:22):

And then that would be my feedback for the parent asking for some help is, where are you willing to compromise? And maybe it's the candy drawer, maybe it's later bedtime, maybe it's sleeping in whatever that looks like, you got to also be willing to give a little bit. Yeah,

Curtis Worcester (26:42):

That's an

Ben Smith (26:42):

Important point. Yeah, I'll throw out just what I've done, Chris, and you could judge what we're doing or not. No, we're not judging. That's the thing. There's no judgment. We're curious. We're not judging, right? Yeah. But I think obviously I'm very fortunate. My parents and my in- laws are both very close. They're very active in my kiddo's life. I think what my wife and I have really found is just opening up the communication channels a whole lot is like, "Hey, they're taking Caden for the day, but I want to let you know, so here's what's happened the last three days. This is what he faces challenge, he faced that challenge. He's a little upset and sensitive about this going on right now and here's how we've been responding. Here's how we've been coaching.

Chris McLaughlin (27:25):

Here's

Ben Smith (27:25):

How we've been talking about this. If it comes up, I just want you to know here's what we've been saying, not giving pre-forest instruction, you must say this or you must do this,

(27:37):

But

(27:37):

That they're not disarmed by something that comes up that they think is new that might not be new and now we're getting conflicting signals as we to talk about co-parenting in a way is thinking about that. And I felt like that has maybe avoided a lot of landmines that maybe would have been there if we didn't have those briefing conversations post and before as we went through.

Chris McLaughlin (28:03):

Yep. There is absolutely nothing to judge in any of that, Ben. It's everything we were just talking about with transparency and communication and being vulnerable. And with all the pressure that kids are under in the best of days, you throw in a disappointment, you throw in bullying, you throw in a young person who maybe is challenged by a mental health need or maybe some needs around managing physical health or illness as well and then the level of tightness of support even magnifies even more. The village analogy is one that I come back to over and over again because in a village there's going to be shared culture, shared rules, shared laws, thou shalt not do this and that's got to, no matter who's in charge, those rules are going to apply. And typically those are around safety. Then in the village, the way that the individual folks uphold those laws or those norms of the village, maybe there's some shifting in approach there.

(29:14):

Maybe one person is pretty like speed limit 45, you're at 46, you're done. The other person gives you that nine or 10 limit to ... That's okay. You can be consistent and flexible at the same time. Because you're having those conversations right up front though, Ben, it's very clear what the non-negotiables are going to be. Yeah.

Curtis Worcester (29:39):

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that ending statement right there, Chris, is the most important. And I know we just spent time talking through it, but the upfront communication, nobody's blindsided, nobody's shocked by these. No surprises. Yeah. We don't like surprises with these types of things. So again, And continuing down this conversation, Chris, obviously today is a very digital world I think for every generation. I think kids, for all of us, for our parents, everyone has been kind of thrust into this very digital world. But again, specifically today, kids especially are just in a very digital world. We have texting and Snapchats and TikToks and Instagrams, right?

Ben Smith (30:22):

Yeah.

Curtis Worcester (30:23):

All of it. So my question for you, again, still thinking from the retiree, maybe grandparent lens here, maybe they're not as connected and they're not as up to speed with the technology. Although I will put a plug out there for that generation. I am amazed, just we see every day the ability that they have gained to use technology over recent years, I want to applaud them. But for this sake, let's say we're still not comfortable with it. We want to be in touch with the kids. We feel completely out of touch because we don't know how to go on Instagram and watch a reel or whatever it is. Do these grandparents need to understand the platforms to understand the kids? Because I think that's maybe a feeling they have is, well, I can't help because I don't know how to use Instagram. And so can you just talk about that a litle bit, like that separation?

Chris McLaughlin (31:11):

Yeah. The answer to that question is a resounding absolutely not. It's not the platform that's important. It's the purpose of the platform that's important. So understanding what purpose does the platform serve for that young person is the critical conversation. I don't have to be proficient and I am not in all of these different apps or platforms, but I know, oh, Instagram, pictures, short videos, TikTok, it's all short videos, right? YouTube, video by definition. So what is the purpose and then what need is it potentially serving? And that's where the curiosity that we've been talking about comes in. You don't have to invest the time or the energy in learning or even having kid teach me because that's a little cringe too. Teach me TikTok. Nope. Show me. Show me what you are doing. And that's where I love that example of grandpa on the couch next to grandkid, grandkids TikToking, grandpas reading the news

(32:25):

And

(32:25):

They're connecting through proximity and through presence without needing to risk being inauthentic with suddenly I'm taking interest in this thing that I have no idea what it does, no idea how it works, and I'm never going to use it. We're not going to send reels back and forth to each other. We're not going to Snapchat each other. But it's important for me as grandpa to understand how and why you're doing what you're doing. I do want to though reference this piece about safety and we all know the significant safety concerns that exist in social media. I've worked with a lot of parents and grandparents who assumed that the crossword puzzle app was no big deal and we've had to educate folks. It's not the crosswords that they're doing, it's the embedded chat within the platform. That's why they're on it. It's not words with friends, it's live conversations with friends.

(33:32):

And so I think it's important to also make sure that we are providing clear rules and guardrails around these things. And that's where there Ben that you were referencing with your parents and in- laws become so critical. We do not allow tablet and bedroom door closed. That is absolutely off the table no matter how well they did on the spelling test that day. But understanding the basic safety pieces, I would rather spend time teaching or having conversations about internet safety instead of investing time and trying to teach somebody all the platforms and how to set up accounts with all of those things. They just need to know the guardrails. Gotcha.

Curtis Worcester (34:19):

Yeah. Sorry, I'm just taking in. I was going to bring up another example, but we've talked about Ben and Caden and Kara enough, so I'll keep going. Ben and I, we were just talking about it yesterday, the internet safety and it was the chat piece that you brought up and we were talking about video games and there's a game that the kids want to play and maybe the game's a little violent or something, but we can get by that, but it's the strangers all over the world with no limit that can then talk to them in a headset. And so anyway, we've covered that. So I want to keep going though. So I think it's certainly a theme we've talked about even on this show a lot is maybe our listeners or elderly citizens that maybe don't have grandkids themselves or maybe their grandkids live across the country and we still want to become trusted adults though.

(35:16):

We still want to help in the community. We want to be there for that generation, even if they're maybe not our bloodline or our family. So what are some ways that someone can still feel like they can become that trusted adult in their community maybe outside of that family relationship?

Chris McLaughlin (35:34):

Yeah, and I love that. In the settings that I've worked, I am one that would never say no to somebody who wants to come in and volunteer or share time or share skills or expertise. So that mentorship piece is huge, huge. And something that we have talked about the three of us together in this setting is the research around being the one safe and trusted adult, especially for youth who are at higher risk of not finding their community, not belonging. And so I'm talking about LGBTQ youth, I'm talking about neurodivergent youth, I'm talking about youth maybe from a lower socioeconomic status that isn't quite fitting in with the rest of the crowd. These are the kids who need that safe, trusted adult from a resilience from a protective factor perspective more than ever before. And so every community's a little gent. I have friends on the West Coast that their neighborhood school has a volunteer reading program and every Thursday morning folks from all over the community come in and they're spread out across the school and they do reading and the teachers provide the book and they just are looking for folks to do the reading part.

(36:57):

Local libraries do a lot of that stuff as well. There are some programs, nonprofits, Maine has several of these like the volunteer Grammy and Granpy stuff. What we probably thought of as Big Brother Big Sister- I was just going to say- ... Half in the day. It's sort of like big Grampy, Big Grammy and that's opening yourself, maybe opening your interest and your time up to a young person in the community that doesn't have access to that or would benefit from that. Clearly there's got to be guardrails there too. We just don't have anybody off the street come in and read to kids. There's a process that folks have to go through and rightly so. But investing that volunteer time, especially as a retiree who I might find myself having a little bit of time to fill, giving that back to a young person in need, I can't think of much more that would fill a cup than that.

Curtis Worcester (37:54):

Yeah. No, that's great. That's great.

Ben Smith (37:56):

Chris, I want to share a quick story to that too, because I think this is something where, again, I've valued myself community work because I think enriches you in so many more ways, but the mentorship is something that I've found. It's like that's what I like and we're getting one-on-one conversations where you're getting deeper into things instead of touching people in little shallow areas is you get to really dig into it. And there was just a wealth management night at the main business school a few weeks ago that Curtis and I went to and students that are interested in finance and wealth management and

(38:28):

Investing.

(38:30):

So of course the statistic is like 34% of people in the field are women. It's two-thirds essentially male. But as a population, we have what the majority of people are female in this country, so it's 51 or something like that. But you go, why are women really off-ramped in this industry? They get put into operational roles. They get put into other roles that maybe feel like maybe there's a little bit of a glass ceiling. So had two young ladies, and again, one's a senior, one's a sophomore, met with them the last couple weeks and going like, "Hey, you're going to run into stuff. You're going to run into these sorts of things and know your power. If you have goals and if you work through these things, you can get these to these places."

(39:21):

But that has filled my cup is to go, "Hey, here's a population I think that can achieve this stuff." And they're over 18, they're adults now, but here's young people that really need help and guidance in the industry. I'm sharing this story because I think it doesn't have to be family. It doesn't have to be like, here's just somebody, it could just be industry-wide. I think there's a disconnect in my industry. How can I help maybe another generation go through maybe or go around roadblocks that I had to go through make it easier for them? And we have a mentor conversation back and forth. So I wanted to share that out to you too. Yeah.

Chris McLaughlin (40:03):

I love that. Yeah. And being that matching around shared interests, to some degree, the hard part's already been done for you in that sort of dynamic where, hey, Ben and Curtis, we've got a group of young people who are interested in blank, you both do blank. That's perfect. You don't have to do the step of finding the thing that you can connect or bond over. It's been done for you. So those opportunities I would absolutely jump over and there's that mentorship as well as the modeling piece. And I think about similar to you both, community services is a big value of mine and mentorship and being the safe, trusted adult in a young person's life is meaningful for me. I spend a lot of time with LGBTQ youth in different settings and forums. One of my most favorite and cup-filling and humbling things I get to do every year is be part of Equality Maine's LGBTQ youth camp here in the state of Maine.

(41:19):

And we get 45, 50 queer youth in the woods to provide them with a real summer camp experience. That is something that typically these young people don't want or don't feel like they're accepted or wanted there. And we get to the adults who are there, myself included, get to model that you can be a queer young person who develops into a happy, healthy, safe and successful adult and there is a future out there for you, whether it's in this industry or within this community or identity. And that just is such a magical gift to be able to pay forward to the next generation.

Ben Smith (42:06):

Love that. And applaud you for doing that, Chris. Thank you for your voice there and advocacy. That's just really important. I want to ask a question, and this is something where growing up in a small rural town, I think we had four or five suicides as classmates when I grew up. So you've done incredible work in suicide prevention and youth mental health. And so I just want to ask, because I feel like I'm just sensitive to that just because I saw it growing up a lot and just the impact of a small town and how it gets ripped up when something like this happens. And just want to ask about that role of that trusted adult in helping a kid through tough times and what are some signs that a child might need more professional help? Because again, you don't want to look for signs of things that are not there and you're maybe overall sensitive, but also there's a lot of things that you said, especially from a digital age of things that might be happening and things that might be in a youth's world that you're not aware of.

(43:08):

And if we're looking for things, maybe we can help steer them towards a positive route on overcoming these challenges.

Chris McLaughlin (43:16):

Yeah, that is a super important question and conversation. And I think it's just important to name that Spider-Man Marvel thing about with great power comes great responsibility and it's great to be the one and be the cool adult in a person's life. And when you sign up for that, you sign up for all of it. You sign up for the cringey TikTok stuff and the laughs overshared YouTube videos and the fun drives in the woods and all of that stuff and you sign up for the tough times when it's not going as well. And so I just want to name that piece around consistency and showing up and intentionality that when you set your intention to being the one for a young person, you're in it through thick and thin and all of it. And this is part of all of it. And we've talked about youth being under significant pressure.

(44:20):

We've talked about some of the mental health stuff of being bullied or not belonging, being an outsider and all of that stuff. And we know not just here in Maine, but across the country, the data around onset of mental health concerns, anxiety and depression especially is showing up younger and younger and younger, eating disorders, showing up younger and younger and younger and all of the things that come with that. So I love that folks listening or watching this can start maybe thinking about how do I get more confident and how do I get more competent in just holding space for a young person to struggle because it's different. Going back to the comparison culture thing, the way we did it no longer applies anymore. So we've got to throw that stuff to the side and be willing to learn what kids today need. And so there's a couple pieces here, Ben, there's knowing the signs and I do a lot of work with families and caregivers around just the suicide prevention 101 stuff, trusting your gut.

(45:27):

So when something is feeling off or not at baseline, I'm going to turn the radar up a litle bit and tune it a litle bit more. Signs like starting to withdraw, starting to lose interest in the things that brought joy or happiness or passion shifts in things like mood and sleep and appetite, shifts in peer groups. Actually listening for signs of hopelessness or helplessness, it's never going to get any better. It's always going to be this way. No one will ever like me, maybe increased risk-taking behavior, walk in the train trestle tracks, not wearing seatbelts or bike helmets, just changes in those behaviors, starting to give their prized possessions away, the baseball card collection, the Pokemon collections, starting to gift those and certainly any signs or evidence of self-harm. So cutting marks, burning marks, scabs, or it's the middle of summer 80-ish degrees and the sleeves or sweatshirts pulled down over the hands wearing the sweatpants, not letting folks see their legs, see something, say something, trust your gut.

(46:45):

And if you are not the primary caregiver, you are the part of the village, that piece around open communication, these aren't secrets to keep and making sure that the young person's primary caregivers or parents are well aware of what you're noticing and what you're seeing. The other thing I just want to name as this is not the fun part of being the trusted adult, being a part of the village and it's essential. The number one thing, the number one fear I hear from caregivers, grandparents about this dynamic is this assumption that if I talk about self-harm or suicide with a young person, I'm going to put the idea in their head and they're going to do it and then it's going to be on me. And there is zero evidence that suggests that talking about suicide is correlated to causing self-harm or suicidal behaviors. In fact, it's the exact opposite.

(47:46):

When we normalize talking about feelings, when we normalize talking about the hard stuff, as much as the good, fun stuff, we create environments where a young person can feel more comfortable and not judged when they acknowledge, "Yeah, you know what? I have been wondering what the world would be like if I weren't in it. " And to be able to have that conversation and then get resources and get help.

Curtis Worcester (48:10):

Yeah. No, that's just-

Chris McLaughlin (48:12):

So that was a lot to dump on. No,

Curtis Worcester (48:14):

But it's a lot

Chris McLaughlin (48:15):

To it for

Curtis Worcester (48:16):

Sure. And it's a super important conversation, Chris, and I thank you and I know Ben thanks you for having it with us. And so I just hope people listening, of course, if you find yourself in a situation like that, you communicate it, you find the resources if you're not the resource and just ... Yeah.

Chris McLaughlin (48:34):

And take care of you.

(48:36):

That's the part I don't think we talk about enough in parenting caregiving that it's depleting. It is hard to be on all the time and it's so essential to, and I know it's a term we overuse self-care stuff, but it is essential to make sure that you as the caregiver, you as the grandparent or the retiree are getting your cup filled from time to time getting that break. It's hard. It's hard. So finding a resource that supports you in balancing the things that trusted adults have to balance is also, I think, an essential part of the conversation.

Curtis Worcester (49:15):

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So we're nearing the end of our conversation today. I have two kind of closing questions for you. One is we're still on topic very much so with this first question as kind of a buzz question, if you will, an action item. For somebody listening, let's say this sparked this was the conversation that they heard that said, "You know what? This is it. This is the weekend that I want to start showing up for the kids in my life, but I just don't know where to start." Can you just tell us, Chris, what's one thing that grandpa, grandma, mom, dad, aunt, uncle, whatever it is, what can they do this weekend to start this building connection?

Chris McLaughlin (49:58):

Yeah, great question. And I love that leaving folks with some actions myself, keep it simple, keep it intentional. So maybe it's find one moment to get curious about to ask the question and really listen to the answer. Maybe it's one moment to have proximity and create that safe connection with no pressure, presence without pressure. And maybe it's just as simple as sending a text or a card or a call that says, "I'm thinking of you. No pressure to respond. Just wanted to know I was thinking of you and smiling." That's all it takes to start creating those moments.

Curtis Worcester (50:43):

I love it. I love it. Well, Chris, of course, thank you so much for coming on our show. Again, I know we were saying your third episode is now concluding with us. You're the leader in the clubhouse, if you will. You're our most featured guest at this point. So I do have to ask you the question though. It's a question I know I asked you a long time ago. So for people maybe who didn't hear it, obviously go back and hear the answer now, but I think a lot of things have changed over the last few years for all of us and the world we were just talking about. So maybe your answer to this question has changed too. So the Retirement Success in Maine podcast, obviously that's our show. When you think about your own journey, Chris, and your retirement that's down the road ahead of us, how are you going to define a retirement success for yourself?

(51:35):

What does that look like?

Chris McLaughlin (51:37):

Yeah, to be honest, I don't even remember how I might've answered that question before and I will say, and I will be incredibly just honest here, it has been working with the two of you that has helped clarify that question over the years. I don't know that I would be thinking about this stuff the way I'm thinking about it if it wasn't for the support both of you have offered along the year, so thank you for that 51 and a half as of Saturday tomorrow,

(52:09):

I think for my husband and I, we have started to really think about retirement less as an on or off and more of phases or transitions. And there's not going to be the light switch that goes there. I'm retired and I have all the time in the world all of a sudden it's really understanding how I'm wired and who I am as a person. And I am not one that will ever be able to distance myself from aspects of this work or aspects of even these conversations we've had today, but it's the understanding that it's not all or nothing and that there are transitions and phases that we can go through where we can embrace leaning into a little bit of a slowdown, and here's the answer to your question, Curtis, slowing down does not define retirement. It really is about the balance of slowing down in one aspect that allows us to ramp into maybe another aspect, whether that's going to be travel or home improvements or between Derek and I, it's that proximity is power and presence is power.

(53:24):

He's scrolling his thing, I'm scrolling my thing, but we're doing it together and that

Curtis Worcester (53:28):

Ultimately

Chris McLaughlin (53:28):

At the end of the day is all I really care about.

Curtis Worcester (53:31):

I love that. I love that. And I'll just say candidly, at the beginning of your answer when you were saying retirement's not going to be a light switch off for you. I think anybody who heard your bio that I read about an hour ago, I think it's clear you like to stay involved and do impactful work. So that's not a surprise to hear from us for sure.

Chris McLaughlin (53:51):

Yeah, 100%. And so thanks for giving me the third timer club opportunity and honestly, thanks for making the time for these conversations. I think they are essential in the world we live

Ben Smith (54:05):

In today. And Chris, I would just want to say every time I think we have a conversation, I think Curtis and I get to be better people just from a understanding our EQ goes up as a getting a better sense. So you might have the best IQ in the world, but if you have a very low EQ, your relationships I think suffer. So I think we just continue to get better and better. And for me personally, it's a litle bit of continuing ed type thing that it feels like, hey, I'm getting better at this thing called life and we're getting better with the people we work with and relationships because at the end of the day, it's what we have is we're measured by the relationships that we keep. So thank you for doing this. And again, I know the third time is not going to be the last time.

(54:50):

It's going to be, we're going to do four, five, six, seve eight, nine, 10, keep going. But yeah, this is a lot of fun and I think there's a lot of necessary conversations we're coming out of this. And again, I thank you for taking your time too. And as Curtis read, you're busy enough and we're adding more to your plate. So thank you for sparing and sharing your time with us because

Chris McLaughlin (55:13):

I really do appreciate it. My pleasure. And it's less the plate than it is the cup. These conversations with the both of you are absolutely filling the cup, not taking up space on the plate, I promise you. Awesome. Thanks,

Curtis Worcester (55:25):

Chris. Well,

Ben Smith (55:26):

Chris, you be well and we will catch you next time. Thank you.

Chris McLaughlin (55:28):

Take care.

Ben Smith (55:29):

So listeners out there, obviously good conversation with Chris McLaughlin. And again, I think every time we talk to Chris, we learn more and hopefully if this conversation stirred something in you, I know it did me, but maybe a reminder to reach out to someone, a youth somewhere, whether it be family or not, and consider volunteering. We hope you'll act on it because kids need more trusted adults in their lives today more than ever and you might be exactly who they're waiting for. We encourage you to go backwards and check out episodes 19 and 42 that we did with Chris. And there's a lot of links we put in there for youth mental health resources, support networks, but you can go to blog.guidancepointllc.com/124 for episode 124 and kind of find more about our conversation there. But we appreciate you tuning in. Appreciate you following and listening to our show.

(56:30):

Until next time, thanks for tuning in to The Retirement Success and Maine podcast. Thank you.

Outro (56:37):

Ladies and gentlemen, you've just listened to an information filled episode of the Retirement Success in Maine Podcast. While this show is about finding more ways to improve your retirement happiness, GuidancePoint Advisor's mission is to help our clients create a fulfilling retirement. We do financial planning so that people can enjoy retirement and align their monetary resources to their goals. If you're wondering about your own personal success, we invite you to reach out to us to schedule a 45-minute listening session. Our advisors will have a conversation with you about your goals, your frustrations, and your problems. Make sure you check out GuidancePoint advisors on our blog, Facebook, and LinkedIn, and you can always check out more episodes of this podcast on iTunes and Spotify. And of course, keep on finding your retirement success.